Extracting Value from Multinational Perspectives with Judith McKenna
This week on the Be Epic podcast, Brent sits down with Judith McKenna, former president and CEO of Walmart International. They begin with Judith sharing her career journey from law school to holding numerous roles within Asda and Walmart, culminating as head of Walmart's international business across 19 countries. She discusses the importance of building empowering teams and relating to diverse cultures globally. Brent and Judith also explore the changing retail landscape and priorities around continued growth balanced with preserving quality of life. Listeners gain insights into Judith's people-focused leadership perspective developed over decades navigating massive transformation in the industry.
Transcript
Be a team, player. And if you can set out
Judith McKenna:with that, from day one, it's incredible. I have this phrase,
Judith McKenna:which is, it's amazing what you can accomplish if you don't care
Judith McKenna:who gets the credit.
Brent Williams:Welcome to the be epic podcast, brought to you
Brent Williams:by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of
Brent Williams:Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll
Brent Williams:explore the dynamic landscape of business, and uncover the
Brent Williams:strategies, insights and stories that drive business today.
Brent Williams:Today, I have with me, Judith McKenna. And Judith was recently
Brent Williams:retired as president, CEO of Walmart International, amongst
Brent Williams:many other things. But Judith, thank you for joining us today.
Judith McKenna:Thank you for having me here. today. I'm
Judith McKenna:excited to spend the day with all of you and to learn more
Judith McKenna:about the college.
Brent Williams:Yeah, well, today, you know, in addition to
Brent Williams:to the role I just mentioned, you're also you've recently
Brent Williams:joined the board of Unilever, wonderful company, and today,
Brent Williams:you're serving as our Executive in Residence. So and investing
Brent Williams:in your time in our students. We're excited to have you here.
Judith McKenna:Thank you very much indeed, I'm looking forward
Judith McKenna:to it.
Brent Williams:I want to spend a little time today talking
Brent Williams:about retail, of course, and where retail is going. I think
Brent Williams:you've got a pretty unique vantage point of having run a
Brent Williams:global business across 19 countries, I believe, when you
Brent Williams:when you left Walmart a few months ago. So I want to spend
Brent Williams:some time digging into that I want to dig into what you've
Brent Williams:learned along the way, which is I'm sure what you're going to be
Brent Williams:sharing with our students today. But maybe first, for our
Brent Williams:listeners, a little bit about your background. I think you, I
Brent Williams:think you have an accounting background as an undergraduate
Brent Williams:and started with KPMG. But I'll let you tell us more.
Judith McKenna:Well, actually, my undergraduate is law,
Brent Williams:it is? Ok
Judith McKenna:So I'm law, and then I went into accountancy
Judith McKenna:while I figured out what I wanted to do and worked for KPMG
Judith McKenna:discover discovered a quite a truth early on that math isn't
Judith McKenna:my strong point. But still qualified, I am qualified which
Judith McKenna:as you find the rest of the story is mildly amusing, went in
Judith McKenna:from there and eventually joined a client which had been working
Judith McKenna:at which was Allied Domecq and something called the Tetley pub
Judith McKenna:company, which is a brewing and pub owning
Judith McKenna:business which is utterly fascinating,
Brent Williams:Really?
Brent Williams:incredibly traditional business, incredibly fascinating as your
Brent Williams:first role in industry as you come out of a profession. And I
Brent Williams:learned so much about people and what we did there. But then I
Brent Williams:moved, actually, I lost my job, the company restructured, I was
Brent Williams:made redundant, I had a nine month old baby at the time, and
Brent Williams:I was like, What am I gonna do? I, you know, I don't know. And
Brent Williams:there was a business called Asda, which is one of the UK
Brent Williams:supermarkets, one of the biggest supermarkets in the UK. And they
Brent Williams:were literally across the road from where I'd been working. And
Brent Williams:the decision that I made to go there was I only need to do it
Brent Williams:for about a year in order to get my feet on the ground, because
Brent Williams:it's a bit of a shock to the system, what had happened. And
Brent Williams:27 years later, I'm still here. So don't ever take career advice
Brent Williams:from me about what to do. So I started at Asda.
Brent Williams:I'll take advice on resilience. How about that?
Judith McKenna:It's all part of it. Yeah. You know, these
Judith McKenna:journeys, I always described them as almost the sliding door
Judith McKenna:moments in life and in careers and you choose your attitude as
Judith McKenna:you move through those sliding doors, however it plays out. And
Judith McKenna:so I started at Asda, I started running a really small team in
Judith McKenna:the kind of accounting services department, and worked my way
Judith McKenna:through that. And ultimately, Walmart came along and bought
Judith McKenna:us. And we were like, Oh, we were in the middle of another
Judith McKenna:deal beforehand. And they came in and swooped Asda from that,
Judith McKenna:continued to work in finance. And I eventually became the CFO,
Judith McKenna:which is quite amusing. If you think about my earlier comments
Judith McKenna:about maths may not be my strong point. Interesting point about
Judith McKenna:finance. You have to be competent enough at the maths,
Judith McKenna:but it's way more than that. And it's also massively about people
Judith McKenna:as well. So I was the CFO for nearly a decade. But while I was
Judith McKenna:doing that, I was the kind of person that said, Oh, yes, you
Judith McKenna:know, so and so's left from this function. I'll I'll run that for
Judith McKenna:a while. So I run on HR for a while, I run technology for a
Judith McKenna:while. I ran supply chain for a bit. I did just about everything
Judith McKenna:except merchandising there, and even did a little bit of
Judith McKenna:operations. We did a deal to buy some shops from a business
Judith McKenna:called Neto. And we did all of the, I did the diligence, the
Judith McKenna:m&a and everything. We got to the end of that and I was like,
Judith McKenna:I don't want somebody else to run this. So I said, can I run
Judith McKenna:these stores because they're much different format to the
Judith McKenna:ones we had. They went yeah, just just for a while until we
Judith McKenna:figure everything out. But you're not keeping them. I was
Judith McKenna:like, okay, and then their chief operating officer opportunity
Judith McKenna:came up. They didn't finance being a CFO for a decade was
Judith McKenna:kind of learning these kind of operating ropes. And I said, I'd
Judith McKenna:stick my hand up and like, I'll do it. And they said, well, if
Judith McKenna:you do this one, you have to give up finance. You can't do
Judith McKenna:both. And I said, well, what's the worst that could happen? And
Judith McKenna:I did it. And so I did Chief Operating Officer for Asda for
Judith McKenna:just under three years. And then I made the decision to come over
Judith McKenna:to the US with Walmart, for an experience brought my family, I
Judith McKenna:have two grown up kids. And my husband, and I came only for two
Judith McKenna:years. I knew exactly when I was going home, I knew the dates the
Judith McKenna:kids were going back into school. And that was it, no
Judith McKenna:question about it. And I moved into international to be the
Judith McKenna:head of strategy, m&a, and business development in the
Judith McKenna:international business, really big challenge for me, but I've
Judith McKenna:only done it for about a year when Doug McMillon moved to be
Judith McKenna:the CEO of Walmart, Inc. and he said, would you mind coming into
Judith McKenna:the US and having a quick look and seeing two things? One is we
Judith McKenna:have neighborhood markets, which are really just starting to grow
Judith McKenna:and would you operate those for a period of time? And would you
Judith McKenna:have a look at this intersection of digital and physical, we
Judith McKenna:think there is something in the intersection, the word
Judith McKenna:omnichannel hadn't even been created at that point. And I
Judith McKenna:would tell you, there was less of an intersection and more of
Judith McKenna:two parallel paths at that stage that were running. So I started
Judith McKenna:to do that there was a whole pile of change. Again, remember,
Judith McKenna:my plan was to go home on you may date. And by a series of
Judith McKenna:events, including the CEO of Walmart US changing, I ended up
Judith McKenna:becoming the Chief Operating Officer of Walmart US which is
Judith McKenna:1.2 million people, four and a half 1000 stores and a small
Judith McKenna:British accountant from the north of England categorically
Brent Williams:Oh the irony
Judith McKenna:running knows, it's the best job in the world.
Judith McKenna:It was fantastic. Did that for about three years. Note never
Judith McKenna:got home back to the UK at this point.
Brent Williams:Still here. By the way,
Judith McKenna:Still here, we'd abandoned all hope of that
Judith McKenna:completely. And I'm incredibly grateful for those
Judith McKenna:opportunities. And those moments, the sliding doors, that
Judith McKenna:decisions worked out as we went through them. And then six years
Judith McKenna:ago, just over six news seven years ago, now I became the CEO
Judith McKenna:of Walmart International, and operated that until my
Judith McKenna:retirement on the 31st of January this year.
Brent Williams:What a what a career thus far and starting
Brent Williams:chapter two. It sounds like at this point. You know, Judith, I
Brent Williams:mean, what you just said, I can't remember exactly the way
Brent Williams:you said it. But you know, when Doug McMillon assumes the CEO
Brent Williams:role and says, Come over and like let's look at this
Brent Williams:intersection of digital and physical. That was a pretty
Brent Williams:historical moment. You may not have known it at the time. But
Brent Williams:my goodness,
Judith McKenna:Yeah, it was. I think it was clear. So in the UK
Judith McKenna:had this advantage because in the UK, we'd operated online
Judith McKenna:grocery shopping for a long time, it had taken us years to
Judith McKenna:create a model that we thought could ultimately work and we'd
Judith McKenna:had a lot of failures along the way. But I ran the grocery
Judith McKenna:online grocery teams when I was Chief Operating Officer over
Judith McKenna:there. And I'd watched it grow up. And it was a real I can
Judith McKenna:remember the launch of grocery shopping right back and it would
Judith McKenna:have been like eight or nine years previous to all of that,
Judith McKenna:probably longer. And I can remember the presentation that
Judith McKenna:the lady she was called Sheena Ford, who was making about why
Judith McKenna:we should invest in online shopping. And it's a picture of
Judith McKenna:a dinosaur in the front of this presentation. And it said eat
Judith McKenna:lunch or be lunch. And it's always stuck with me. And when
Judith McKenna:we came to the US, I know I knew that the US was already looking
Judith McKenna:it got two stores, it was trying some things in it had been to
Judith McKenna:France, it had seen the French models of cliques drive throughs
Judith McKenna:and do that. And the rest really was just actually if we can make
Judith McKenna:people work together and understand that this is not a
Judith McKenna:bad thing. It's a good thing. And everybody can play a part in
Judith McKenna:it. So that transformation was as much about getting people's
Judith McKenna:mindsets transformed as it ever was fiscally what we did, and
Judith McKenna:that's at both ends, which was stores and people from that side
Judith McKenna:of it saying this is cannibalizing our business aid,
Judith McKenna:why would we do this people are going to stop coming in shops.
Judith McKenna:And then E commerce folks saying no the world is going to be an
Judith McKenna:online. We're not going to need this same number of stores are
Judith McKenna:not going to operate the same way. As we now know history. is
Judith McKenna:written, and the sweet spot is in the middle. But we just
Judith McKenna:started, we just started with online pickup. We didn't do
Judith McKenna:delivery, because myself and a guy called Mark Ibbotson had
Judith McKenna:promised ourselves that if we ever got a chance to start over,
Judith McKenna:he and I'd worked on it in the UK, we would start with pickup
Judith McKenna:and then move to delivery, who in the world gets a chance to
Judith McKenna:redo it all over again, and at the world's largest retailer. So
Judith McKenna:that is why pickup was the first thing we did not delivery until
Judith McKenna:we built the muscle about how to pick and then we could expand
Judith McKenna:into the delivery later.
Brent Williams:Interesting
Brent Williams:Yeah, when you said that, like I can see the
Judith McKenna:That makes it sound like it was really easy,
Judith McKenna:really quick thing to do. It really wasn't. And it was, it
Judith McKenna:was like a ringside seat actually being in the ring, not
Judith McKenna:just the seat to watching a business mind shift in terms of
Judith McKenna:what was important, and how you could get growth from this. And
Judith McKenna:I'll tell you a funny side story. Some people who know
Judith McKenna:Walmart's around, not just locally, you'll know that when
Judith McKenna:we very first started there was big orange pickup signs on the
Judith McKenna:corners of Walmart's we painted them bright orange, and it said
Judith McKenna:That's right.
Judith McKenna:pick up on them. People have often asked like, you know, how
Judith McKenna:did you think about the branding color? How did you do that? For
Judith McKenna:orange sign in my mind. And it's it's a reminder of sometimes
Brent Williams:Hard, but simple.
Brent Williams:all of those students who are still studying branding and how
Brent Williams:you have to be really thoughtful about it, you do. But in that
Brent Williams:particular cases, we just wanted people to see it. Because nobody
Brent Williams:knew what on earth it meant or what it was or where to go. So
Brent Williams:we painted them bright orange and hope for the best. As it
Brent Williams:turns out, it worked out beautifully. But it's now so
Brent Williams:embedded. You don't need to do that anymore. You can just it's
Brent Williams:just warm up.
Judith McKenna:That's exactly right.
Brent Williams:Well, as your as you've now experienced both US,
Brent Williams:well, UK, US and then global. And you've been there at a
Brent Williams:things can be really simple.
Brent Williams:pretty historical moment and helped Walmart to really build
Brent Williams:out the way its omni channel strategy and capabilities. What
Brent Williams:do you see changing now that interests you, you know, whether
Brent Williams:that's in pockets across the world? Or? Yeah, anything about
Brent Williams:the way that you see retail and commerce changing?
Judith McKenna:Yeah, I think that what I love, as I think
Judith McKenna:everybody has accepted that the model is Omni, and that there is
Judith McKenna:a place for stores, in whatever that future looks like. Because
Judith McKenna:people didn't always believe that. And I firmly have always
Judith McKenna:believed it. And they're an incredible asset, if run
Judith McKenna:correctly, when you're an online retailer, as well. So I see
Judith McKenna:that, I think there will be less in terms of the physical flow of
Judith McKenna:what happens, it might be how you get your product will change
Judith McKenna:in the future. So I think the work that Walmart is doing, for
Judith McKenna:example, on drones is fascinating that how does last
Judith McKenna:mile continue to develop automated vehicles, drones, that
Judith McKenna:that is a fascinating area, which could give even more
Judith McKenna:access to people and working that. But I think what's really
Judith McKenna:going to happen and you've got quite a way into this without
Judith McKenna:talking about AI. And Gen AI is how do retailers personalize in
Judith McKenna:the future, show you things of interest to you, without cutting
Judith McKenna:you off from a breadth of display that you will also want
Judith McKenna:to be able to browse. And it's interesting when people shop
Judith McKenna:online as many people know, sometimes you go in to buy a
Judith McKenna:product, you know what you want, and sometimes you just want to
Judith McKenna:look and the better that we get at doing those things, serving
Judith McKenna:up experiences to people I think it's gonna be interesting. I do
Judith McKenna:also think there is some trends coming through which will affect
Judith McKenna:so wellness, health. People want to know where products come
Judith McKenna:from, what does that look like? I think that opens up a whole
Judith McKenna:nother set of opportunities as well in retail and supplies
Judith McKenna:chains for retail. But I when I look around the world, what I do
Judith McKenna:get excited about in retail is product development. We talk we
Judith McKenna:talk about retail we always talk about you know, tech and how
Judith McKenna:it's going to change products and products around the world.
Judith McKenna:So for you I'll take one particular category. Today I
Judith McKenna:look at the UK and what we would call ready meals convenience
Judith McKenna:food is massive. It is a huge part of the shopping basket, way
Judith McKenna:more underdeveloped in the US opportunity in those kind of
Judith McKenna:areas. So I think product development is something that's
Judith McKenna:really interesting as well.
Brent Williams:So products that excite customers. And and then
Brent Williams:also, you know, one thing you said about the the development
Brent Williams:of the Omni experiences, while using AI generative AI
Brent Williams:potentially to better serve up to me what I need and want, it
Brent Williams:is still shopping, you know, and there's still some excitement in
Brent Williams:that.
Judith McKenna:Yeah. And I, you know, I do upset some people, I
Judith McKenna:say this fundamentally, we buy things, we move things, we show
Judith McKenna:people things, we sell things. Everything else around, that is
Judith McKenna:the technology that enables a lot of that. Now, I do think as
Judith McKenna:you start to serve up those personalized kind of experiences
Judith McKenna:and everything else, their risk of that is data and trust.
Judith McKenna:Because you know, what, people and the people who get this
Judith McKenna:right, will be those who make me feel this is an experience that
Judith McKenna:I'm in no way, no, my data isn't being used for something, I
Judith McKenna:wouldn't want it to be used, but I trust you with my data. And
Judith McKenna:that relationship works for both of us. And that I think is going
Judith McKenna:to be increasingly important as well.
Brent Williams:Well one thing I've noticed Judith that I feel
Brent Williams:like at least you do really well is you take really complicated
Brent Williams:things and actually make them a little simpler so that someone
Brent Williams:can get their head around them. How did you? How did you take
Brent Williams:that skill, or other skills, and now move from the US from the UK
Brent Williams:to the US. And now all of a sudden, you know, you're
Brent Williams:managing a business that's in 19, 20 countries.
Judith McKenna:Yeah, I should probably not let you into the
Judith McKenna:secret of one of the reasons I tried to do that is I have to
Judith McKenna:understand it, in business, as you come up, you one of the
Judith McKenna:things that's brilliant about is you will get involved and
Judith McKenna:engaged in things that you have no experience of, and that could
Judith McKenna:be healthcare, it could be financial services. Now the big
Judith McKenna:trends are things that are happening. You I can't pretend
Judith McKenna:to be an expert. So for me to be able to understand that and make
Judith McKenna:sure is there the right guard rails? Are we thinking about
Judith McKenna:this the right way? Should we make investments, I need for
Judith McKenna:myself to be able to boil it down to what are the principles
Judith McKenna:of this? And that concept of the principles of something if you
Judith McKenna:get to that, everything else is variants of that. And if there's
Judith McKenna:a groundbreaking disruptive model that does something
Judith McKenna:differently, understand what that is. And that is a universal
Judith McKenna:skill, like anywhere, and there are people who do it even better
Judith McKenna:than I do that complex problems. And they explain it to me. Oh,
Judith McKenna:that's what you meant. And the translation, therefore, between
Judith McKenna:the UK and the US was relatively straightforward from that.
Judith McKenna:Although I think some people when I came over, they would
Judith McKenna:still say this, if you talk to anybody is I asked too many
Judith McKenna:questions. Like I am Mrs. Questions. And the reason for
Judith McKenna:that is because that's how I understand. And as I process
Judith McKenna:that information, I can then think about how do I create
Judith McKenna:models in my head, for how things work, the biggest
Judith McKenna:difference between moving from the UK to the US was the
Judith McKenna:language, completely divided by a common language. It was that
Judith McKenna:was by far the hardest thing. And I grew up with American TV,
Judith McKenna:because we used to get all of the shows, I'm not gonna tell
Judith McKenna:you which ones because it'll age me horribly. But like had some
Judith McKenna:of it, but some of my phraseology just didn't work
Judith McKenna:here. Can you can you imagine standing on stage at the year
Judith McKenna:beginning meeting for Walmart in front of all of their store
Judith McKenna:managers. And I'm saying something, and the whole of the
Judith McKenna:audience is just looking at me. We have no idea what you just
Judith McKenna:said. Like that doesn't translate at all.
Brent Williams:That's funny. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense.
Brent Williams:And once you say it, but now, but now so you know that you had
Brent Williams:to do that here. How do you do that across 19, 20 countries? I
Brent Williams:think earlier, when we were talking, you said something
Brent Williams:about you felt like one really important thing about running a
Brent Williams:global business is that? Yeah, I don't know exactly how you said
Brent Williams:it. But you have to be local in some way.
Judith McKenna:Yeah. And I'm passionate about this, which is,
Judith McKenna:I believe the way to be successfully successful locally.
Judith McKenna:It globally is to think local. That doesn't mean you're not
Judith McKenna:global. That doesn't mean that you can't bring all of the
Judith McKenna:advantages of being global. There are some things that are
Judith McKenna:non negotiable, and ethics and compliance and those areas that
Judith McKenna:should be global. But how will you understand the customer?
Judith McKenna:That's a local customer. That's a local team. Now, I also
Judith McKenna:believe that customers are more alike around the world than they
Judith McKenna:are different. But once you have that, as a central principle,
Judith McKenna:that closest to the customer, we have to be able to localize the
Judith McKenna:further up the pipe you go, the more global we should become.
Judith McKenna:That actually gives you for me quite a good blueprint for how
Judith McKenna:you operate a global business. The phrase I use in the strategy
Judith McKenna:for Walmart international that I had was strong local businesses
Judith McKenna:powered by Walmart. So for me, that is a market as a business
Judith McKenna:in a market that is independently strong in that
Judith McKenna:market, it's close to its customer, it can take the right
Judith McKenna:decisions. It knows its competition, it adapts to that.
Judith McKenna:But the powered by Walmart means that it is actually it has an
Judith McKenna:advantage, because it is part of the Walmart family. And Walmart
Judith McKenna:gets something in return from that business as well. And that
Judith McKenna:can be innovation sharing, the more that you can do the same,
Judith McKenna:the better, undoubtedly, but you have to know where those lines
Judith McKenna:are. So I'm a great believer in kind of a multi local model. In
Judith McKenna:some ways. The biggest thing when you start to translate
Judith McKenna:anything globally, for me is culture. And you have to
Judith McKenna:understand different cultures, you have to understand the
Judith McKenna:nuances of those cultures. People generally want the same
Judith McKenna:things. They have the same hopes, fears and dreams.
Judith McKenna:However, the context around them might be slightly different. So
Judith McKenna:not going to market and saying here are all of the things I
Judith McKenna:know and I believe, say, let me understand first. And then let's
Judith McKenna:figure out how we get better the best of both worlds here to
Judith McKenna:create that kind of local model that's still global.
Brent Williams:Is this where I think you've called yourself a
Brent Williams:moment ago, Mrs. Questions. I assume that that was a
Brent Williams:tremendous if that's the way you think in the way you've learned,
Brent Williams:I assume that was a tremendous advantage as you go into the
Brent Williams:market, spend time there. Ask questions and listen, is it that
Brent Williams:simple? Yes.
Judith McKenna:And by the way, that's no different than US. So
Judith McKenna:when I was running the US operations, it was the same
Judith McKenna:thing, walk stores, just ask questions, get people to tell
Judith McKenna:you what was happening. And just, you know, the simplest
Judith McKenna:question, what's happening in your day to day? Hey, what's
Judith McKenna:working well, tell me, do you have any ideas how we could make
Judith McKenna:this better? That that's kind of a store conversation. But
Judith McKenna:culturally, I can remember going into India. And I'd been much
Judith McKenna:earlier in my career, and then went back when I went into the
Judith McKenna:international role. And I, one of the things I said to the
Judith McKenna:team, so what would you recommend I read and the team's
Judith McKenna:in rather than me buying books here, the teams there gave me
Judith McKenna:three or four books and said, read these if you want to even
Judith McKenna:start to understand which by the way, you'll never be able to be
Judith McKenna:there. But it will give you a grounding for it. And then I'd
Judith McKenna:run some listening sessions, I just get people to talk to me,
Judith McKenna:just tell me what you do. Tell me how does family life to work
Judith McKenna:life work? How do families behave at home? Tell me those
Judith McKenna:things. And of course, everyone's different, you know,
Judith McKenna:it's a multitude of states there. Same thing, same as a US
Judith McKenna:actually, everything's got its own rituals, and kind of rhythm
Judith McKenna:to it can't know it all, you can know enough to be culturally
Judith McKenna:adept, and respectful. And I think respect is an incredibly
Judith McKenna:important part of it.
Brent Williams:I've followed you on LinkedIn for some time
Brent Williams:known about your career. And one thing I've noticed, I think I've
Brent Williams:noticed hope, I'm hope I've interpreted this correctly,
Brent Williams:you're passionate about teams and building teams, and building
Brent Williams:teams that function at a high level, maybe kind of where did
Brent Williams:that come from in you and like, any tips that you would have
Brent Williams:like, well, you know, I'm sure you've made some mistakes and
Brent Williams:had some great successes. What do you learn from that?
Judith McKenna:Yeah, I am passionate about teams. And I
Judith McKenna:think I think it comes from a couple of different places. One
Judith McKenna:is, I've worked in good teams, and I've worked in bad teams.
Judith McKenna:And the difference in those, you know, one of these people, like
Judith McKenna:if I ever get to a place where I run a team, they're the things I
Judith McKenna:won't do, and then things I will do. And so part of it was that,
Judith McKenna:and then I just I enjoy seeing people develop. That's critical
Judith McKenna:to me. And frankly, I can't do it on my own. Like I'm not
Judith McKenna:bright enough. There's not enough hours in the day. And
Judith McKenna:there's always somebody that knows more than me and has a
Judith McKenna:better idea than I do. So if you can get people to do that, what
Judith McKenna:they can do that you can't do, and you make it a relationship
Judith McKenna:where everybody grows, then that's a win win, and why
Judith McKenna:wouldn't you? And maybe some of it, I haven't really thought
Judith McKenna:about it this way, but maybe some of it comes back to the
Judith McKenna:fact that I am not the best accountant in the world. Like
Judith McKenna:I'm not bad. I'm fine. But I'm never going to be a superstar at
Judith McKenna:it so you have to build a team with superstars in it, but
Judith McKenna:they'll only be a superstar in your team and want to be in your
Judith McKenna:team. If you treat them well, and the team is successful. So
Judith McKenna:all of these threads start to come together. And life's too
Judith McKenna:short to not have fun as well. Life is too short not to have
Judith McKenna:fun and creating some fun and some energy means you go home
Judith McKenna:yourself in a better place as you hope everybody goes back in
Judith McKenna:a better place as well. So the advice I would, you know, it's
Judith McKenna:interesting, when I break down advice, one of the things I
Judith McKenna:always say is be a team player, be a team, player, and if you
Judith McKenna:can set out with that in day one, it's incredible, I have
Judith McKenna:this phrase, which is it's amazing what you can accomplish
Judith McKenna:if you don't care who gets the credit. And that is a mantra
Judith McKenna:that I have tried to live by, I will hopefully be the first to
Judith McKenna:put somebody on a pedestal and say, look at what they did, they
Judith McKenna:did a brilliant job with this. In a meeting, you know, there's
Judith McKenna:some where you've got to be careful as to who's in there.
Judith McKenna:But the majority, like, listen to this person, like they're the
Judith McKenna:ones who know this. Now you're also their safety net. As
Judith McKenna:they're learning to do that, because it's scary the first
Judith McKenna:time you have to present something or do something so and
Judith McKenna:the first to have high expectations. And if you ask
Judith McKenna:somebody for a list of my attributes, I'm sure high
Judith McKenna:expectations would be on there. And I don't always get it right.
Judith McKenna:Sometimes they're too I don't think I'm sorry, I'd correct
Judith McKenna:that. I don't think you never have to higher expectations. How
Judith McKenna:I bring people along is sometimes has been one of my
Judith McKenna:weak spots that I've consistently had to work on. At
Judith McKenna:the same time, making sure that you have a really diverse team,
Judith McKenna:that all understands that part in it. It's critical.
Brent Williams:And so fun to build a team like that, lead it
Brent Williams:and then watch those people thrive. Isn't it?
Judith McKenna:Yes, it is great seeing your team here. And
Judith McKenna:you're applying all of those same principles. We had some
Judith McKenna:time together with your team, and there are smiles around the
Judith McKenna:table as an energy about people that matters.
Brent Williams:It does matter. Totally agree. Well, we've
Brent Williams:touched a good bit on probably what is my final question, but
Brent Williams:I'll ask if there's one other thing, maybe. So when you think
Brent Williams:about the Walton College 1000s of students here, most of them
Brent Williams:are young people that are about to start their first job. If if
Brent Williams:you just had to give one piece of advice to that graduating
Brent Williams:senior, from what you've learned, what would it be?
Judith McKenna:I'm always challenged when somebody says
Judith McKenna:give me one piece of advice. But I will try to follow that.
Brent Williams:I'll give you two or three,
Judith McKenna:Well, thank you, I would have probably done them
Judith McKenna:anyway.
Brent Williams:That's what I thought
Judith McKenna:I'm gonna get like, there is one basic thing
Judith McKenna:that you're going to think is hilarious, which gets, you have
Judith McKenna:to work hard.
Judith McKenna:I and I can give you all of the advice in the
Brent Williams:Yeah,
Brent Williams:world. But if you're not prepared to work hard, then
Brent Williams:that's one of the fundamentals of it. That doesn't mean you
Brent Williams:can't have free time. That doesn't mean you can't make
Brent Williams:choices in life. But you do have to really apply yourself to
Brent Williams:whatever it is that you do. The second thing that I would say is
Brent Williams:find something that brings you joy that you can be passionate
Brent Williams:about. And that might not be your first job. It could be your
Brent Williams:second or your third or your fourth. But you'll take
Brent Williams:experiences along the way as you do that. And it's not by not
Brent Williams:talking about having things that find you find joy in a job that
Brent Williams:you find joy in, I don't mean every day is going to be
Brent Williams:rainbows and sparkles, like that is not what I mean, you'll have
Brent Williams:bad days, you'll actually do jobs that are not right for you.
Brent Williams:I've had plenty of them along the way. But maybe you believe
Brent Williams:in what the company does. And you know, you're getting
Brent Williams:experience and you can do that. So be find passion and joy and
Brent Williams:energy from what it is you choose to do. And finally be a
Brent Williams:student of whatever business it is. Sam Waltons famous line, be
Brent Williams:a student of the business used to tell everybody the store
Brent Williams:managers that everybody that I believe that and my natural
Brent Williams:curiosity, which would also be on the list of people's things
Brent Williams:and what they said about me means that I am always a student
Brent Williams:of whatever it is that I'm doing, and they're the best
Brent Williams:pieces. But yeah, they want a future an opportunity in front
Brent Williams:of folks that are graduating from here. It's really exciting.
Brent Williams:My own son is about to graduate this year and seeing that and I
Brent Williams:want to say that the challenges that come with that. And the
Brent Williams:stress that comes with that, too. Maybe one of the things is
Brent Williams:be resilient. You mentioned that word earlier. Be resilient. If
Brent Williams:it doesn't work out first time, there's a second time and a
Brent Williams:third time and a fourth time, your resilience will see you
Brent Williams:through so much.
Brent Williams:I'm so excited for the students and what what
Brent Williams:the rest of their careers gonna look like. But you're right,
Brent Williams:these careers in life isn't linear, right? And embrace that
Brent Williams:and take joy in it and but going back to your first point, work
Brent Williams:hard.
Judith McKenna:Yeah.
Brent Williams:Well, Judith, thank you for being Executive in
Brent Williams:Residence today at the Sam M. Walton College of Business.
Brent Williams:Thank you for just giving your time to our students and, and
Brent Williams:teaching us and making us better.
Judith McKenna:No, thank you. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I've
Judith McKenna:enjoyed the conversation and just, you know, huge good luck
Judith McKenna:to everybody who is graduating always on their journey towards
Judith McKenna:that I wish you all good things for the future.
Brent Williams:Thanks, Judith.
Judith McKenna:Thank you.
Brent Williams:On behalf of the Walton College thank you for
Brent Williams:joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected
Brent Williams:and never miss an episode. Simply search for be epic on
Brent Williams:your preferred podcast service.