Episode 270

full
Published on:

10th Apr 2024

Extracting Value from Multinational Perspectives with Judith McKenna

This week on the Be Epic podcast, Brent sits down with Judith McKenna, former president and CEO of Walmart International. They begin with Judith sharing her career journey from law school to holding numerous roles within Asda and Walmart, culminating as head of Walmart's international business across 19 countries. She discusses the importance of building empowering teams and relating to diverse cultures globally. Brent and Judith also explore the changing retail landscape and priorities around continued growth balanced with preserving quality of life. Listeners gain insights into Judith's people-focused leadership perspective developed over decades navigating massive transformation in the industry.

Transcript
Judith McKenna:

Be a team, player. And if you can set out

Judith McKenna:

with that, from day one, it's incredible. I have this phrase,

Judith McKenna:

which is, it's amazing what you can accomplish if you don't care

Judith McKenna:

who gets the credit.

Brent Williams:

Welcome to the be epic podcast, brought to you

Brent Williams:

by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of

Brent Williams:

Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll

Brent Williams:

explore the dynamic landscape of business, and uncover the

Brent Williams:

strategies, insights and stories that drive business today.

Brent Williams:

Today, I have with me, Judith McKenna. And Judith was recently

Brent Williams:

retired as president, CEO of Walmart International, amongst

Brent Williams:

many other things. But Judith, thank you for joining us today.

Judith McKenna:

Thank you for having me here. today. I'm

Judith McKenna:

excited to spend the day with all of you and to learn more

Judith McKenna:

about the college.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, well, today, you know, in addition to

Brent Williams:

to the role I just mentioned, you're also you've recently

Brent Williams:

joined the board of Unilever, wonderful company, and today,

Brent Williams:

you're serving as our Executive in Residence. So and investing

Brent Williams:

in your time in our students. We're excited to have you here.

Judith McKenna:

Thank you very much indeed, I'm looking forward

Judith McKenna:

to it.

Brent Williams:

I want to spend a little time today talking

Brent Williams:

about retail, of course, and where retail is going. I think

Brent Williams:

you've got a pretty unique vantage point of having run a

Brent Williams:

global business across 19 countries, I believe, when you

Brent Williams:

when you left Walmart a few months ago. So I want to spend

Brent Williams:

some time digging into that I want to dig into what you've

Brent Williams:

learned along the way, which is I'm sure what you're going to be

Brent Williams:

sharing with our students today. But maybe first, for our

Brent Williams:

listeners, a little bit about your background. I think you, I

Brent Williams:

think you have an accounting background as an undergraduate

Brent Williams:

and started with KPMG. But I'll let you tell us more.

Judith McKenna:

Well, actually, my undergraduate is law,

Brent Williams:

it is? Ok

Judith McKenna:

So I'm law, and then I went into accountancy

Judith McKenna:

while I figured out what I wanted to do and worked for KPMG

Judith McKenna:

discover discovered a quite a truth early on that math isn't

Judith McKenna:

my strong point. But still qualified, I am qualified which

Judith McKenna:

as you find the rest of the story is mildly amusing, went in

Judith McKenna:

from there and eventually joined a client which had been working

Judith McKenna:

at which was Allied Domecq and something called the Tetley pub

Judith McKenna:

company, which is a brewing and pub owning

Judith McKenna:

business which is utterly fascinating,

Brent Williams:

Really?

Brent Williams:

incredibly traditional business, incredibly fascinating as your

Brent Williams:

first role in industry as you come out of a profession. And I

Brent Williams:

learned so much about people and what we did there. But then I

Brent Williams:

moved, actually, I lost my job, the company restructured, I was

Brent Williams:

made redundant, I had a nine month old baby at the time, and

Brent Williams:

I was like, What am I gonna do? I, you know, I don't know. And

Brent Williams:

there was a business called Asda, which is one of the UK

Brent Williams:

supermarkets, one of the biggest supermarkets in the UK. And they

Brent Williams:

were literally across the road from where I'd been working. And

Brent Williams:

the decision that I made to go there was I only need to do it

Brent Williams:

for about a year in order to get my feet on the ground, because

Brent Williams:

it's a bit of a shock to the system, what had happened. And

Brent Williams:

27 years later, I'm still here. So don't ever take career advice

Brent Williams:

from me about what to do. So I started at Asda.

Brent Williams:

I'll take advice on resilience. How about that?

Judith McKenna:

It's all part of it. Yeah. You know, these

Judith McKenna:

journeys, I always described them as almost the sliding door

Judith McKenna:

moments in life and in careers and you choose your attitude as

Judith McKenna:

you move through those sliding doors, however it plays out. And

Judith McKenna:

so I started at Asda, I started running a really small team in

Judith McKenna:

the kind of accounting services department, and worked my way

Judith McKenna:

through that. And ultimately, Walmart came along and bought

Judith McKenna:

us. And we were like, Oh, we were in the middle of another

Judith McKenna:

deal beforehand. And they came in and swooped Asda from that,

Judith McKenna:

continued to work in finance. And I eventually became the CFO,

Judith McKenna:

which is quite amusing. If you think about my earlier comments

Judith McKenna:

about maths may not be my strong point. Interesting point about

Judith McKenna:

finance. You have to be competent enough at the maths,

Judith McKenna:

but it's way more than that. And it's also massively about people

Judith McKenna:

as well. So I was the CFO for nearly a decade. But while I was

Judith McKenna:

doing that, I was the kind of person that said, Oh, yes, you

Judith McKenna:

know, so and so's left from this function. I'll I'll run that for

Judith McKenna:

a while. So I run on HR for a while, I run technology for a

Judith McKenna:

while. I ran supply chain for a bit. I did just about everything

Judith McKenna:

except merchandising there, and even did a little bit of

Judith McKenna:

operations. We did a deal to buy some shops from a business

Judith McKenna:

called Neto. And we did all of the, I did the diligence, the

Judith McKenna:

m&a and everything. We got to the end of that and I was like,

Judith McKenna:

I don't want somebody else to run this. So I said, can I run

Judith McKenna:

these stores because they're much different format to the

Judith McKenna:

ones we had. They went yeah, just just for a while until we

Judith McKenna:

figure everything out. But you're not keeping them. I was

Judith McKenna:

like, okay, and then their chief operating officer opportunity

Judith McKenna:

came up. They didn't finance being a CFO for a decade was

Judith McKenna:

kind of learning these kind of operating ropes. And I said, I'd

Judith McKenna:

stick my hand up and like, I'll do it. And they said, well, if

Judith McKenna:

you do this one, you have to give up finance. You can't do

Judith McKenna:

both. And I said, well, what's the worst that could happen? And

Judith McKenna:

I did it. And so I did Chief Operating Officer for Asda for

Judith McKenna:

just under three years. And then I made the decision to come over

Judith McKenna:

to the US with Walmart, for an experience brought my family, I

Judith McKenna:

have two grown up kids. And my husband, and I came only for two

Judith McKenna:

years. I knew exactly when I was going home, I knew the dates the

Judith McKenna:

kids were going back into school. And that was it, no

Judith McKenna:

question about it. And I moved into international to be the

Judith McKenna:

head of strategy, m&a, and business development in the

Judith McKenna:

international business, really big challenge for me, but I've

Judith McKenna:

only done it for about a year when Doug McMillon moved to be

Judith McKenna:

the CEO of Walmart, Inc. and he said, would you mind coming into

Judith McKenna:

the US and having a quick look and seeing two things? One is we

Judith McKenna:

have neighborhood markets, which are really just starting to grow

Judith McKenna:

and would you operate those for a period of time? And would you

Judith McKenna:

have a look at this intersection of digital and physical, we

Judith McKenna:

think there is something in the intersection, the word

Judith McKenna:

omnichannel hadn't even been created at that point. And I

Judith McKenna:

would tell you, there was less of an intersection and more of

Judith McKenna:

two parallel paths at that stage that were running. So I started

Judith McKenna:

to do that there was a whole pile of change. Again, remember,

Judith McKenna:

my plan was to go home on you may date. And by a series of

Judith McKenna:

events, including the CEO of Walmart US changing, I ended up

Judith McKenna:

becoming the Chief Operating Officer of Walmart US which is

Judith McKenna:

1.2 million people, four and a half 1000 stores and a small

Judith McKenna:

British accountant from the north of England categorically

Brent Williams:

Oh the irony

Judith McKenna:

running knows, it's the best job in the world.

Judith McKenna:

It was fantastic. Did that for about three years. Note never

Judith McKenna:

got home back to the UK at this point.

Brent Williams:

Still here. By the way,

Judith McKenna:

Still here, we'd abandoned all hope of that

Judith McKenna:

completely. And I'm incredibly grateful for those

Judith McKenna:

opportunities. And those moments, the sliding doors, that

Judith McKenna:

decisions worked out as we went through them. And then six years

Judith McKenna:

ago, just over six news seven years ago, now I became the CEO

Judith McKenna:

of Walmart International, and operated that until my

Judith McKenna:

retirement on the 31st of January this year.

Brent Williams:

What a what a career thus far and starting

Brent Williams:

chapter two. It sounds like at this point. You know, Judith, I

Brent Williams:

mean, what you just said, I can't remember exactly the way

Brent Williams:

you said it. But you know, when Doug McMillon assumes the CEO

Brent Williams:

role and says, Come over and like let's look at this

Brent Williams:

intersection of digital and physical. That was a pretty

Brent Williams:

historical moment. You may not have known it at the time. But

Brent Williams:

my goodness,

Judith McKenna:

Yeah, it was. I think it was clear. So in the UK

Judith McKenna:

had this advantage because in the UK, we'd operated online

Judith McKenna:

grocery shopping for a long time, it had taken us years to

Judith McKenna:

create a model that we thought could ultimately work and we'd

Judith McKenna:

had a lot of failures along the way. But I ran the grocery

Judith McKenna:

online grocery teams when I was Chief Operating Officer over

Judith McKenna:

there. And I'd watched it grow up. And it was a real I can

Judith McKenna:

remember the launch of grocery shopping right back and it would

Judith McKenna:

have been like eight or nine years previous to all of that,

Judith McKenna:

probably longer. And I can remember the presentation that

Judith McKenna:

the lady she was called Sheena Ford, who was making about why

Judith McKenna:

we should invest in online shopping. And it's a picture of

Judith McKenna:

a dinosaur in the front of this presentation. And it said eat

Judith McKenna:

lunch or be lunch. And it's always stuck with me. And when

Judith McKenna:

we came to the US, I know I knew that the US was already looking

Judith McKenna:

it got two stores, it was trying some things in it had been to

Judith McKenna:

France, it had seen the French models of cliques drive throughs

Judith McKenna:

and do that. And the rest really was just actually if we can make

Judith McKenna:

people work together and understand that this is not a

Judith McKenna:

bad thing. It's a good thing. And everybody can play a part in

Judith McKenna:

it. So that transformation was as much about getting people's

Judith McKenna:

mindsets transformed as it ever was fiscally what we did, and

Judith McKenna:

that's at both ends, which was stores and people from that side

Judith McKenna:

of it saying this is cannibalizing our business aid,

Judith McKenna:

why would we do this people are going to stop coming in shops.

Judith McKenna:

And then E commerce folks saying no the world is going to be an

Judith McKenna:

online. We're not going to need this same number of stores are

Judith McKenna:

not going to operate the same way. As we now know history. is

Judith McKenna:

written, and the sweet spot is in the middle. But we just

Judith McKenna:

started, we just started with online pickup. We didn't do

Judith McKenna:

delivery, because myself and a guy called Mark Ibbotson had

Judith McKenna:

promised ourselves that if we ever got a chance to start over,

Judith McKenna:

he and I'd worked on it in the UK, we would start with pickup

Judith McKenna:

and then move to delivery, who in the world gets a chance to

Judith McKenna:

redo it all over again, and at the world's largest retailer. So

Judith McKenna:

that is why pickup was the first thing we did not delivery until

Judith McKenna:

we built the muscle about how to pick and then we could expand

Judith McKenna:

into the delivery later.

Brent Williams:

Interesting

Brent Williams:

Yeah, when you said that, like I can see the

Judith McKenna:

That makes it sound like it was really easy,

Judith McKenna:

really quick thing to do. It really wasn't. And it was, it

Judith McKenna:

was like a ringside seat actually being in the ring, not

Judith McKenna:

just the seat to watching a business mind shift in terms of

Judith McKenna:

what was important, and how you could get growth from this. And

Judith McKenna:

I'll tell you a funny side story. Some people who know

Judith McKenna:

Walmart's around, not just locally, you'll know that when

Judith McKenna:

we very first started there was big orange pickup signs on the

Judith McKenna:

corners of Walmart's we painted them bright orange, and it said

Judith McKenna:

That's right.

Judith McKenna:

pick up on them. People have often asked like, you know, how

Judith McKenna:

did you think about the branding color? How did you do that? For

Judith McKenna:

orange sign in my mind. And it's it's a reminder of sometimes

Brent Williams:

Hard, but simple.

Brent Williams:

all of those students who are still studying branding and how

Brent Williams:

you have to be really thoughtful about it, you do. But in that

Brent Williams:

particular cases, we just wanted people to see it. Because nobody

Brent Williams:

knew what on earth it meant or what it was or where to go. So

Brent Williams:

we painted them bright orange and hope for the best. As it

Brent Williams:

turns out, it worked out beautifully. But it's now so

Brent Williams:

embedded. You don't need to do that anymore. You can just it's

Brent Williams:

just warm up.

Judith McKenna:

That's exactly right.

Brent Williams:

Well, as your as you've now experienced both US,

Brent Williams:

well, UK, US and then global. And you've been there at a

Brent Williams:

things can be really simple.

Brent Williams:

pretty historical moment and helped Walmart to really build

Brent Williams:

out the way its omni channel strategy and capabilities. What

Brent Williams:

do you see changing now that interests you, you know, whether

Brent Williams:

that's in pockets across the world? Or? Yeah, anything about

Brent Williams:

the way that you see retail and commerce changing?

Judith McKenna:

Yeah, I think that what I love, as I think

Judith McKenna:

everybody has accepted that the model is Omni, and that there is

Judith McKenna:

a place for stores, in whatever that future looks like. Because

Judith McKenna:

people didn't always believe that. And I firmly have always

Judith McKenna:

believed it. And they're an incredible asset, if run

Judith McKenna:

correctly, when you're an online retailer, as well. So I see

Judith McKenna:

that, I think there will be less in terms of the physical flow of

Judith McKenna:

what happens, it might be how you get your product will change

Judith McKenna:

in the future. So I think the work that Walmart is doing, for

Judith McKenna:

example, on drones is fascinating that how does last

Judith McKenna:

mile continue to develop automated vehicles, drones, that

Judith McKenna:

that is a fascinating area, which could give even more

Judith McKenna:

access to people and working that. But I think what's really

Judith McKenna:

going to happen and you've got quite a way into this without

Judith McKenna:

talking about AI. And Gen AI is how do retailers personalize in

Judith McKenna:

the future, show you things of interest to you, without cutting

Judith McKenna:

you off from a breadth of display that you will also want

Judith McKenna:

to be able to browse. And it's interesting when people shop

Judith McKenna:

online as many people know, sometimes you go in to buy a

Judith McKenna:

product, you know what you want, and sometimes you just want to

Judith McKenna:

look and the better that we get at doing those things, serving

Judith McKenna:

up experiences to people I think it's gonna be interesting. I do

Judith McKenna:

also think there is some trends coming through which will affect

Judith McKenna:

so wellness, health. People want to know where products come

Judith McKenna:

from, what does that look like? I think that opens up a whole

Judith McKenna:

nother set of opportunities as well in retail and supplies

Judith McKenna:

chains for retail. But I when I look around the world, what I do

Judith McKenna:

get excited about in retail is product development. We talk we

Judith McKenna:

talk about retail we always talk about you know, tech and how

Judith McKenna:

it's going to change products and products around the world.

Judith McKenna:

So for you I'll take one particular category. Today I

Judith McKenna:

look at the UK and what we would call ready meals convenience

Judith McKenna:

food is massive. It is a huge part of the shopping basket, way

Judith McKenna:

more underdeveloped in the US opportunity in those kind of

Judith McKenna:

areas. So I think product development is something that's

Judith McKenna:

really interesting as well.

Brent Williams:

So products that excite customers. And and then

Brent Williams:

also, you know, one thing you said about the the development

Brent Williams:

of the Omni experiences, while using AI generative AI

Brent Williams:

potentially to better serve up to me what I need and want, it

Brent Williams:

is still shopping, you know, and there's still some excitement in

Brent Williams:

that.

Judith McKenna:

Yeah. And I, you know, I do upset some people, I

Judith McKenna:

say this fundamentally, we buy things, we move things, we show

Judith McKenna:

people things, we sell things. Everything else around, that is

Judith McKenna:

the technology that enables a lot of that. Now, I do think as

Judith McKenna:

you start to serve up those personalized kind of experiences

Judith McKenna:

and everything else, their risk of that is data and trust.

Judith McKenna:

Because you know, what, people and the people who get this

Judith McKenna:

right, will be those who make me feel this is an experience that

Judith McKenna:

I'm in no way, no, my data isn't being used for something, I

Judith McKenna:

wouldn't want it to be used, but I trust you with my data. And

Judith McKenna:

that relationship works for both of us. And that I think is going

Judith McKenna:

to be increasingly important as well.

Brent Williams:

Well one thing I've noticed Judith that I feel

Brent Williams:

like at least you do really well is you take really complicated

Brent Williams:

things and actually make them a little simpler so that someone

Brent Williams:

can get their head around them. How did you? How did you take

Brent Williams:

that skill, or other skills, and now move from the US from the UK

Brent Williams:

to the US. And now all of a sudden, you know, you're

Brent Williams:

managing a business that's in 19, 20 countries.

Judith McKenna:

Yeah, I should probably not let you into the

Judith McKenna:

secret of one of the reasons I tried to do that is I have to

Judith McKenna:

understand it, in business, as you come up, you one of the

Judith McKenna:

things that's brilliant about is you will get involved and

Judith McKenna:

engaged in things that you have no experience of, and that could

Judith McKenna:

be healthcare, it could be financial services. Now the big

Judith McKenna:

trends are things that are happening. You I can't pretend

Judith McKenna:

to be an expert. So for me to be able to understand that and make

Judith McKenna:

sure is there the right guard rails? Are we thinking about

Judith McKenna:

this the right way? Should we make investments, I need for

Judith McKenna:

myself to be able to boil it down to what are the principles

Judith McKenna:

of this? And that concept of the principles of something if you

Judith McKenna:

get to that, everything else is variants of that. And if there's

Judith McKenna:

a groundbreaking disruptive model that does something

Judith McKenna:

differently, understand what that is. And that is a universal

Judith McKenna:

skill, like anywhere, and there are people who do it even better

Judith McKenna:

than I do that complex problems. And they explain it to me. Oh,

Judith McKenna:

that's what you meant. And the translation, therefore, between

Judith McKenna:

the UK and the US was relatively straightforward from that.

Judith McKenna:

Although I think some people when I came over, they would

Judith McKenna:

still say this, if you talk to anybody is I asked too many

Judith McKenna:

questions. Like I am Mrs. Questions. And the reason for

Judith McKenna:

that is because that's how I understand. And as I process

Judith McKenna:

that information, I can then think about how do I create

Judith McKenna:

models in my head, for how things work, the biggest

Judith McKenna:

difference between moving from the UK to the US was the

Judith McKenna:

language, completely divided by a common language. It was that

Judith McKenna:

was by far the hardest thing. And I grew up with American TV,

Judith McKenna:

because we used to get all of the shows, I'm not gonna tell

Judith McKenna:

you which ones because it'll age me horribly. But like had some

Judith McKenna:

of it, but some of my phraseology just didn't work

Judith McKenna:

here. Can you can you imagine standing on stage at the year

Judith McKenna:

beginning meeting for Walmart in front of all of their store

Judith McKenna:

managers. And I'm saying something, and the whole of the

Judith McKenna:

audience is just looking at me. We have no idea what you just

Judith McKenna:

said. Like that doesn't translate at all.

Brent Williams:

That's funny. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense.

Brent Williams:

And once you say it, but now, but now so you know that you had

Brent Williams:

to do that here. How do you do that across 19, 20 countries? I

Brent Williams:

think earlier, when we were talking, you said something

Brent Williams:

about you felt like one really important thing about running a

Brent Williams:

global business is that? Yeah, I don't know exactly how you said

Brent Williams:

it. But you have to be local in some way.

Judith McKenna:

Yeah. And I'm passionate about this, which is,

Judith McKenna:

I believe the way to be successfully successful locally.

Judith McKenna:

It globally is to think local. That doesn't mean you're not

Judith McKenna:

global. That doesn't mean that you can't bring all of the

Judith McKenna:

advantages of being global. There are some things that are

Judith McKenna:

non negotiable, and ethics and compliance and those areas that

Judith McKenna:

should be global. But how will you understand the customer?

Judith McKenna:

That's a local customer. That's a local team. Now, I also

Judith McKenna:

believe that customers are more alike around the world than they

Judith McKenna:

are different. But once you have that, as a central principle,

Judith McKenna:

that closest to the customer, we have to be able to localize the

Judith McKenna:

further up the pipe you go, the more global we should become.

Judith McKenna:

That actually gives you for me quite a good blueprint for how

Judith McKenna:

you operate a global business. The phrase I use in the strategy

Judith McKenna:

for Walmart international that I had was strong local businesses

Judith McKenna:

powered by Walmart. So for me, that is a market as a business

Judith McKenna:

in a market that is independently strong in that

Judith McKenna:

market, it's close to its customer, it can take the right

Judith McKenna:

decisions. It knows its competition, it adapts to that.

Judith McKenna:

But the powered by Walmart means that it is actually it has an

Judith McKenna:

advantage, because it is part of the Walmart family. And Walmart

Judith McKenna:

gets something in return from that business as well. And that

Judith McKenna:

can be innovation sharing, the more that you can do the same,

Judith McKenna:

the better, undoubtedly, but you have to know where those lines

Judith McKenna:

are. So I'm a great believer in kind of a multi local model. In

Judith McKenna:

some ways. The biggest thing when you start to translate

Judith McKenna:

anything globally, for me is culture. And you have to

Judith McKenna:

understand different cultures, you have to understand the

Judith McKenna:

nuances of those cultures. People generally want the same

Judith McKenna:

things. They have the same hopes, fears and dreams.

Judith McKenna:

However, the context around them might be slightly different. So

Judith McKenna:

not going to market and saying here are all of the things I

Judith McKenna:

know and I believe, say, let me understand first. And then let's

Judith McKenna:

figure out how we get better the best of both worlds here to

Judith McKenna:

create that kind of local model that's still global.

Brent Williams:

Is this where I think you've called yourself a

Brent Williams:

moment ago, Mrs. Questions. I assume that that was a

Brent Williams:

tremendous if that's the way you think in the way you've learned,

Brent Williams:

I assume that was a tremendous advantage as you go into the

Brent Williams:

market, spend time there. Ask questions and listen, is it that

Brent Williams:

simple? Yes.

Judith McKenna:

And by the way, that's no different than US. So

Judith McKenna:

when I was running the US operations, it was the same

Judith McKenna:

thing, walk stores, just ask questions, get people to tell

Judith McKenna:

you what was happening. And just, you know, the simplest

Judith McKenna:

question, what's happening in your day to day? Hey, what's

Judith McKenna:

working well, tell me, do you have any ideas how we could make

Judith McKenna:

this better? That that's kind of a store conversation. But

Judith McKenna:

culturally, I can remember going into India. And I'd been much

Judith McKenna:

earlier in my career, and then went back when I went into the

Judith McKenna:

international role. And I, one of the things I said to the

Judith McKenna:

team, so what would you recommend I read and the team's

Judith McKenna:

in rather than me buying books here, the teams there gave me

Judith McKenna:

three or four books and said, read these if you want to even

Judith McKenna:

start to understand which by the way, you'll never be able to be

Judith McKenna:

there. But it will give you a grounding for it. And then I'd

Judith McKenna:

run some listening sessions, I just get people to talk to me,

Judith McKenna:

just tell me what you do. Tell me how does family life to work

Judith McKenna:

life work? How do families behave at home? Tell me those

Judith McKenna:

things. And of course, everyone's different, you know,

Judith McKenna:

it's a multitude of states there. Same thing, same as a US

Judith McKenna:

actually, everything's got its own rituals, and kind of rhythm

Judith McKenna:

to it can't know it all, you can know enough to be culturally

Judith McKenna:

adept, and respectful. And I think respect is an incredibly

Judith McKenna:

important part of it.

Brent Williams:

I've followed you on LinkedIn for some time

Brent Williams:

known about your career. And one thing I've noticed, I think I've

Brent Williams:

noticed hope, I'm hope I've interpreted this correctly,

Brent Williams:

you're passionate about teams and building teams, and building

Brent Williams:

teams that function at a high level, maybe kind of where did

Brent Williams:

that come from in you and like, any tips that you would have

Brent Williams:

like, well, you know, I'm sure you've made some mistakes and

Brent Williams:

had some great successes. What do you learn from that?

Judith McKenna:

Yeah, I am passionate about teams. And I

Judith McKenna:

think I think it comes from a couple of different places. One

Judith McKenna:

is, I've worked in good teams, and I've worked in bad teams.

Judith McKenna:

And the difference in those, you know, one of these people, like

Judith McKenna:

if I ever get to a place where I run a team, they're the things I

Judith McKenna:

won't do, and then things I will do. And so part of it was that,

Judith McKenna:

and then I just I enjoy seeing people develop. That's critical

Judith McKenna:

to me. And frankly, I can't do it on my own. Like I'm not

Judith McKenna:

bright enough. There's not enough hours in the day. And

Judith McKenna:

there's always somebody that knows more than me and has a

Judith McKenna:

better idea than I do. So if you can get people to do that, what

Judith McKenna:

they can do that you can't do, and you make it a relationship

Judith McKenna:

where everybody grows, then that's a win win, and why

Judith McKenna:

wouldn't you? And maybe some of it, I haven't really thought

Judith McKenna:

about it this way, but maybe some of it comes back to the

Judith McKenna:

fact that I am not the best accountant in the world. Like

Judith McKenna:

I'm not bad. I'm fine. But I'm never going to be a superstar at

Judith McKenna:

it so you have to build a team with superstars in it, but

Judith McKenna:

they'll only be a superstar in your team and want to be in your

Judith McKenna:

team. If you treat them well, and the team is successful. So

Judith McKenna:

all of these threads start to come together. And life's too

Judith McKenna:

short to not have fun as well. Life is too short not to have

Judith McKenna:

fun and creating some fun and some energy means you go home

Judith McKenna:

yourself in a better place as you hope everybody goes back in

Judith McKenna:

a better place as well. So the advice I would, you know, it's

Judith McKenna:

interesting, when I break down advice, one of the things I

Judith McKenna:

always say is be a team player, be a team, player, and if you

Judith McKenna:

can set out with that in day one, it's incredible, I have

Judith McKenna:

this phrase, which is it's amazing what you can accomplish

Judith McKenna:

if you don't care who gets the credit. And that is a mantra

Judith McKenna:

that I have tried to live by, I will hopefully be the first to

Judith McKenna:

put somebody on a pedestal and say, look at what they did, they

Judith McKenna:

did a brilliant job with this. In a meeting, you know, there's

Judith McKenna:

some where you've got to be careful as to who's in there.

Judith McKenna:

But the majority, like, listen to this person, like they're the

Judith McKenna:

ones who know this. Now you're also their safety net. As

Judith McKenna:

they're learning to do that, because it's scary the first

Judith McKenna:

time you have to present something or do something so and

Judith McKenna:

the first to have high expectations. And if you ask

Judith McKenna:

somebody for a list of my attributes, I'm sure high

Judith McKenna:

expectations would be on there. And I don't always get it right.

Judith McKenna:

Sometimes they're too I don't think I'm sorry, I'd correct

Judith McKenna:

that. I don't think you never have to higher expectations. How

Judith McKenna:

I bring people along is sometimes has been one of my

Judith McKenna:

weak spots that I've consistently had to work on. At

Judith McKenna:

the same time, making sure that you have a really diverse team,

Judith McKenna:

that all understands that part in it. It's critical.

Brent Williams:

And so fun to build a team like that, lead it

Brent Williams:

and then watch those people thrive. Isn't it?

Judith McKenna:

Yes, it is great seeing your team here. And

Judith McKenna:

you're applying all of those same principles. We had some

Judith McKenna:

time together with your team, and there are smiles around the

Judith McKenna:

table as an energy about people that matters.

Brent Williams:

It does matter. Totally agree. Well, we've

Brent Williams:

touched a good bit on probably what is my final question, but

Brent Williams:

I'll ask if there's one other thing, maybe. So when you think

Brent Williams:

about the Walton College 1000s of students here, most of them

Brent Williams:

are young people that are about to start their first job. If if

Brent Williams:

you just had to give one piece of advice to that graduating

Brent Williams:

senior, from what you've learned, what would it be?

Judith McKenna:

I'm always challenged when somebody says

Judith McKenna:

give me one piece of advice. But I will try to follow that.

Brent Williams:

I'll give you two or three,

Judith McKenna:

Well, thank you, I would have probably done them

Judith McKenna:

anyway.

Brent Williams:

That's what I thought

Judith McKenna:

I'm gonna get like, there is one basic thing

Judith McKenna:

that you're going to think is hilarious, which gets, you have

Judith McKenna:

to work hard.

Judith McKenna:

I and I can give you all of the advice in the

Brent Williams:

Yeah,

Brent Williams:

world. But if you're not prepared to work hard, then

Brent Williams:

that's one of the fundamentals of it. That doesn't mean you

Brent Williams:

can't have free time. That doesn't mean you can't make

Brent Williams:

choices in life. But you do have to really apply yourself to

Brent Williams:

whatever it is that you do. The second thing that I would say is

Brent Williams:

find something that brings you joy that you can be passionate

Brent Williams:

about. And that might not be your first job. It could be your

Brent Williams:

second or your third or your fourth. But you'll take

Brent Williams:

experiences along the way as you do that. And it's not by not

Brent Williams:

talking about having things that find you find joy in a job that

Brent Williams:

you find joy in, I don't mean every day is going to be

Brent Williams:

rainbows and sparkles, like that is not what I mean, you'll have

Brent Williams:

bad days, you'll actually do jobs that are not right for you.

Brent Williams:

I've had plenty of them along the way. But maybe you believe

Brent Williams:

in what the company does. And you know, you're getting

Brent Williams:

experience and you can do that. So be find passion and joy and

Brent Williams:

energy from what it is you choose to do. And finally be a

Brent Williams:

student of whatever business it is. Sam Waltons famous line, be

Brent Williams:

a student of the business used to tell everybody the store

Brent Williams:

managers that everybody that I believe that and my natural

Brent Williams:

curiosity, which would also be on the list of people's things

Brent Williams:

and what they said about me means that I am always a student

Brent Williams:

of whatever it is that I'm doing, and they're the best

Brent Williams:

pieces. But yeah, they want a future an opportunity in front

Brent Williams:

of folks that are graduating from here. It's really exciting.

Brent Williams:

My own son is about to graduate this year and seeing that and I

Brent Williams:

want to say that the challenges that come with that. And the

Brent Williams:

stress that comes with that, too. Maybe one of the things is

Brent Williams:

be resilient. You mentioned that word earlier. Be resilient. If

Brent Williams:

it doesn't work out first time, there's a second time and a

Brent Williams:

third time and a fourth time, your resilience will see you

Brent Williams:

through so much.

Brent Williams:

I'm so excited for the students and what what

Brent Williams:

the rest of their careers gonna look like. But you're right,

Brent Williams:

these careers in life isn't linear, right? And embrace that

Brent Williams:

and take joy in it and but going back to your first point, work

Brent Williams:

hard.

Judith McKenna:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

Well, Judith, thank you for being Executive in

Brent Williams:

Residence today at the Sam M. Walton College of Business.

Brent Williams:

Thank you for just giving your time to our students and, and

Brent Williams:

teaching us and making us better.

Judith McKenna:

No, thank you. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I've

Judith McKenna:

enjoyed the conversation and just, you know, huge good luck

Judith McKenna:

to everybody who is graduating always on their journey towards

Judith McKenna:

that I wish you all good things for the future.

Brent Williams:

Thanks, Judith.

Judith McKenna:

Thank you.

Brent Williams:

On behalf of the Walton College thank you for

Brent Williams:

joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected

Brent Williams:

and never miss an episode. Simply search for be epic on

Brent Williams:

your preferred podcast service.

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About the Podcast

Be EPIC Podcast
Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast featuring Brent Williams, interim dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. In each episode, you will hear from guests that will inspire you to be epic. As experts in their field, they will emphasize strategy, leadership, and entrepreneurship. This programming will highlight innovation and cutting-edge information that will leave you wanting more. Be sure to connect with Brent Williams on LinkedIn to join the conversation, access show notes and discover fantastic bonus content.