From Scientist to Company President: Embracing Change with Marc de Beer
This week on the podcast Matt sits down with Marc de Beer, President of Aviagen North America. They begin by diving into how Marc got involved with animal science and nutrition and how Aviagen uses genetics in the boiler breeding business to supply the best breeding stock to poultry companies around the world. They continue by discussing Marc’s journey from scientist to president of the North America division of the company and how he approaches changes and challenges, such as the rise of artificial intelligence and the ongoing issue of Avian Influenza. The conversation concludes with Marc elaborating on the mission of Aviagen and their efforts toward efficiency and sustainability.
Transcript
it, you know, we weren't and we want to be the
Marc de Beer:very, very, of course, like anybody would tell you, we want
Marc de Beer:to be the best at it. But that is what we do. And that's what
Marc de Beer:we will do.
Matt Waller:Excellence, professionalism, in.novation and
Matt Waller:collegiality. These are the values the Sam M. Walton College
Matt Waller:of Business explores in education, business and the
Matt Waller:lives of people we meet every day. I'm Matt Waller, Dean of
Matt Waller:the Walton College and welcome to the Be EPIC podcast. I have
Matt Waller:with me today, Marc de Beer, President of Aviagen North
Matt Waller:America. Thank you so much for joining me today, Marc.
Marc de Beer:Hey, thanks for having me.
Matt Waller:And, Marc, you have such an interesting career.
Matt Waller:You're from South Africa. You came to the University of
Matt Waller:Arkansas and you got a PhD in Animal Nutrition. You went to
Matt Waller:work for Aviagen back in 2008. And then you went to DSM,
Matt Waller:Elanco. And you moved up the ranks in Elanco fairly quickly.
Matt Waller:And now you're President of Aviagen North America. So let's
Matt Waller:start our conversation by talking about Aviagen. What do
Matt Waller:they do?
Marc de Beer:Sure, yeah, Aviagen is a is a company in the
Marc de Beer:industry, we call ourselves a primary breeder. So if you're
Marc de Beer:buying chicken, to eat from someone, we're the guys who
Marc de Beer:supply the breeding stock to the people you buy your chicken
Marc de Beer:from. So what we do is, really the core of what we do is
Marc de Beer:genetics, we're trying to select the very best of all of our
Marc de Beer:lands, put them together and ultimately create the breeding
Marc de Beer:stock that gets gets bought by our customers that then produces
Marc de Beer:the chicken that you eat. So yeah, we're a breeding company,
Marc de Beer:a genetics company at our core. Yep.
Matt Waller:How did you get interested in animal science and
Matt Waller:animal nutrition? What I know, that's what brought you to the
Matt Waller:United States. But where does your interests stem from?
Marc de Beer:So you know, I grew up on the East coast of
Marc de Beer:South Africa, we grew up in a fairly rural area along the East
Marc de Beer:coast, lots of sugar cane. But you know, we were always sort of
Marc de Beer:exposed to the natural world. And I was fascinated with wild
Marc de Beer:animals. You know, we were lucky to be in an area where, you
Marc de Beer:know, there was lots of wild animals, all the traditional
Marc de Beer:stuff you see with the African game. And so actually, I
Marc de Beer:ultimately studied animal science, because I wanted to
Marc de Beer:become a Game Ranger. And I wanted to to learn about
Marc de Beer:leopards, and lions and elephants. And after a little
Marc de Beer:while, in university, I had the courage eventually to ask one of
Marc de Beer:our professors when we might start learning about, you know,
Marc de Beer:lions and leopards and the like. And basically got the surprise
Marc de Beer:to find out that animal sciences really production agriculture,
Marc de Beer:right. And so my interest really was in wild animals. And then,
Marc de Beer:after spending a little while in college, I realized, well, I'm
Marc de Beer:actually studying agriculture and production. And so yeah, and
Marc de Beer:I had started I kind of enjoyed it and got into the nutrition
Marc de Beer:side of it. It just it was it was a discipline that interested
Marc de Beer:me, I guess more than some of the others. And so, yeah, so it
Marc de Beer:was actually a little bit of ignorance I guess that got me
Marc de Beer:into into the the area. Yeah.
Matt Waller:After you went to work for Aviagen, by the way,
Matt Waller:where's Aviagen out of what, where's the headquarters?
Marc de Beer:Our global headquarters are in Huntsville,
Marc de Beer:Alabama. That's North Alabama. Yeah.
Matt Waller:And what types of livestock do you focus on?
Marc de Beer:At Aviagen it's exclusively poultry. Right? So
Marc de Beer:we're focused on we have a broiler breeding business. So
Marc de Beer:those are chickens. So we're producing again, the breeding
Marc de Beer:stock that ultimately produces the chicken you eat. And then we
Marc de Beer:also have a division that focuses on turkeys. And so we
Marc de Beer:have Aviagen turkeys, which, you know, of course, they do the
Marc de Beer:same type of work, the genetic selection, etc, to produce the
Marc de Beer:turkey that goes into the into the market.
Matt Waller:Well, you know, it's, it's interesting. The
Matt Waller:turkey is, is most of the turkey consumed in North America, or is
Matt Waller:it? Because I know you know, we lived in China for a while and
Matt Waller:it was not easy to find turkey at any time there.
Marc de Beer:Yeah, turkey is definitely a US dominated
Marc de Beer:phenomenon, right. There's definitely pockets of turkey
Marc de Beer:consumption around the world but the US is for sure the majority
Marc de Beer:of the turkey market around the world so it's a far less global
Marc de Beer:business, I guess than the chicken business, which
Marc de Beer:obviously is essentially ubiquitous now around the world,
Marc de Beer:but you have chicken, local chicken industries. But turkey
Marc de Beer:is definitely more localized certainly in the US. And
Marc de Beer:obviously, we have turkey sandwiches, which is a big
Marc de Beer:driver. And then of course Thanksgiving is, which is a huge
Marc de Beer:driver of demand for turkey in the US. Yeah.
Matt Waller:But you're focused on the breeding stock both for
Matt Waller:chicken and turkey. Correct?
Marc de Beer:The company is. I myself focused on my part of the
Marc de Beer:business is exclusively focused on the chicken side. Yeah.
Matt Waller:So how, how does that, I would think that there
Matt Waller:wouldn't be a lot of difference between the breeding chickens
Matt Waller:and the others. What is the difference there?
Marc de Beer:Yeah, I think you'd be surprised that at the
Marc de Beer:level of diversity in the gene pool, right, it's really
Marc de Beer:fascinating. We've got, of course, a whole host of lines,
Marc de Beer:you know, which are, we have pure lines, which which have
Marc de Beer:kind of, you've been perpetuated through through a long period of
Marc de Beer:time. And within those lines, you know, there's there's traits
Marc de Beer:or characteristics that we can measure and select for. And
Marc de Beer:there's, there's still a lot of genetic variation within those
Marc de Beer:lines. And so you can find, you know, individuals who are, you
Marc de Beer:know, uniquely competent in certain traits, and then select,
Marc de Beer:obviously, you know, ideally more and more of those
Marc de Beer:individuals, depending on what you're looking for. So, of
Marc de Beer:course, because we're growing chickens, you know, we're
Marc de Beer:looking for birds that are efficient, we're looking for
Marc de Beer:birds that are strong, have very healthy immune systems can
Marc de Beer:manage in difficult conditions. So there's a whole host of
Marc de Beer:traits. But yeah, you they might, a lot of them might look
Marc de Beer:the same to the untrained eye. But the rate at which they grow
Marc de Beer:and eat, the degree to which they feather these kind, there's
Marc de Beer:a whole host of things, probably, you know, approaching
Marc de Beer:50 different things that we're measuring very, very accurately
Marc de Beer:and trying to, again, combine those traits and find out the
Marc de Beer:best individuals who have the best overall breeding value
Marc de Beer:within a given line.
Matt Waller:So do you have, I would guess you've got a lot of
Matt Waller:expertise in your company around genetics, probably.
Marc de Beer:Sure sure absolutely yeah. We do.
Matt Waller:And, I would think, I had seen a presentation on
Matt Waller:genetics, and chicken, or just in general, but they use chicken
Matt Waller:as an example, a few years ago, and it was quite interesting.
Matt Waller:You know, this presentation made by a company that does genetics
Matt Waller:for for chicken, I can't remember. I think they're in
Matt Waller:Northwest Arkansas, actually.
Marc de Beer:Yeah, most likely is Cobb.
Matt Waller:Yes.
Marc de Beer:Yes. They are based out of Northwest Arkansas
Marc de Beer:so that with Cobb would be our primary competitor. Yeah.
Matt Waller:Okay. So I have a great idea then, of what you do.
Matt Waller:But they showed a presentation where they showed what chicken
Matt Waller:looked like, I don't know, 50-60 years ago, and the evolution of
Matt Waller:the chicken over that time, and it was it was really
Marc de Beer:Fascinating how they, how they've been selected.
Marc de Beer:interesting,
Marc de Beer:And, yeah, they're just, of course, you know, you get a
Marc de Beer:picture of a bird that the you know, comes from genetic stock
Marc de Beer:that's 50 or 60 or 70 years that it's gone unselected, yeah
Marc de Beer:you're gonna see really meaningful differences in that
Marc de Beer:individual relative to its peers from today.
Matt Waller:Well in this picture, they had, like, they
Matt Waller:had like, on one side a picture of the chicken standing there.
Matt Waller:And then how much feed it took them next to it to get to
Matt Waller:wherever it was ready. And then they had one today. So the
Matt Waller:chicken on the left was smaller, but had a bigger pile of food.
Matt Waller:It was pretty interesting.
Marc de Beer:Yeah, I mean, that's been a huge part of the
Marc de Beer:progress, right? Finding finding individuals, or families that
Marc de Beer:are very efficient at converting feed into meat. Because
Marc de Beer:ultimately, that's what our industry does, right? We we take
Marc de Beer:different plant proteins, grains and other goodies, and, you
Marc de Beer:know, run them through a chicken that then converts that into a,
Marc de Beer:you know, an attractive protein for humans to consume. So that's
Marc de Beer:the efficiency with which they do that it's one of the biggest
Marc de Beer:drivers of obviously profitability, but you know you
Marc de Beer:sort of got the knock on effects of, you know, what that does to
Marc de Beer:utilization of resources, right? If it takes a lot less to do
Marc de Beer:what we used to do, and we get more out of it, then obviously,
Marc de Beer:we're kind of contributing to doing things more efficiently
Marc de Beer:and sustainably as well. So, yeah, it's remarkable when you
Marc de Beer:see it visually, visually, like that, the impact of 50, 60, 70
Marc de Beer:years of selection, it's stunning what what's been
Marc de Beer:achieved.
Matt Waller:So as president, you know, obviously, you have a
Matt Waller:PhD. You understand science well, but now you're President
Matt Waller:so you're having to lead the company, you're having to set
Matt Waller:the direction of the company, get people aligned, motivate
Matt Waller:people, invent a path forward, solve problems, et cetera, et
Matt Waller:cetera. So that's a big shift. You know, really, basically, for
Matt Waller:you from your PhD till now, you know, we're talking, what, 15
Matt Waller:years?
Marc de Beer:About 15 years. Yeah.
Matt Waller:So you've had to go from scientist to leader,
Matt Waller:manager. How has that transition been? Has it been challenging
Matt Waller:for you or what do you say?
Marc de Beer:Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I, you know, I,
Marc de Beer:you know, part of the story starts with where I fell into
Marc de Beer:the science of it by mistake, like I described in the
Marc de Beer:beginning, right. So I wasn't, I came to be very passionate about
Marc de Beer:it, and I love it. But it wasn't necessarily you know, where I
Marc de Beer:wanted to be in my whole career. So I think it was within a week
Marc de Beer:of starting at at Aviagen, I sort of naively told my boss
Marc de Beer:that although you hired me as a nutritionist, I really hope I'm
Marc de Beer:not a nutritionist 10 years from now, and I kind of, you know,
Marc de Beer:made that that happen, you know, I was when I, when I left
Marc de Beer:Aviagen, I went into a marketing role at DSM. And that was kind
Marc de Beer:of the first step, you know, evolving into a more general
Marc de Beer:management or business management type role. So, yeah,
Marc de Beer:it's, you know, to the question of whether it's been
Marc de Beer:challenging? For sure, I think it's, but it's a lot of fun,
Marc de Beer:right? Your learning all the time and kind of seeing things
Marc de Beer:and I'm fortunate, I guess, to ask a lot of questions. You
Marc de Beer:know, I'm not afraid to wander a little bit about, you know, what
Marc de Beer:it would take to do something different. And, you know, when
Marc de Beer:I, when I took on a broader business management role of DSM,
Marc de Beer:I had to obviously, I interviewed with the board over
Marc de Beer:in Switzerland, and my boss at that time suggested that I brush
Marc de Beer:up my understanding of finance a little bit, which was very good
Marc de Beer:advice, considering I had very little understanding of it. And
Marc de Beer:so just started reading books. And you know, on the plane over
Marc de Beer:for my interview, reading Finance for Dummies, at least
Marc de Beer:trying to get some of the terminology down. So yeah, I
Marc de Beer:guess just the curiosity for learning. And so yeah, it's been
Marc de Beer:challenging, but it's been fun, right, and you get to see a more
Marc de Beer:broadly look at the business as opposed to purely from a
Marc de Beer:scientific perspective. So yeah, that's, that's kind of what I
Marc de Beer:like, and probably why I've gravitated a little bit in that
Marc de Beer:direction.
Matt Waller:I would imagine in your organization, you're also
Matt Waller:having to lead a lot of scientists, is that right?
Marc de Beer:Sure. Yeah, yeah, we have a lot of technically
Marc de Beer:minded people, for sure. Yep.
Matt Waller:So what do you see as the biggest challenges, for a
Matt Waller:technical company like yours, going forward? And specifically,
Matt Waller:one of the things I'd like to ask you about is artificial
Matt Waller:intelligence, not just our particularly generative AI,
Matt Waller:because, you know, they're we're finding applications of
Matt Waller:generative AI in computer programming, in marketing, in
Matt Waller:all areas of business. So how about your business? How do you
Matt Waller:see generative AI having an impact, if at all?
Marc de Beer:Sure, yeah. You know, we obviously, you know,
Marc de Beer:that I guess the whole world is sort of recognizing and learning
Marc de Beer:and adapting to, to, not just AI, but a whole host of
Marc de Beer:different technologies that, that are emerging. And, you
Marc de Beer:know, obviously, we're also at the front end, like probably
Marc de Beer:most, sort of not yet, people who aren't in the midst of
Marc de Beer:developing it, I think the rest of us all feel like we're
Marc de Beer:learning on the fly a little bit, I think there's a, there's
Marc de Beer:a lot of things that that humans do, that become very repetitive,
Marc de Beer:and I'm not, I'm not suggesting that the only things but you
Marc de Beer:know, just observing, you know, we also, of course, in order to
Marc de Beer:produce our product, we have a large number of flocks of birds
Marc de Beer:that, you know, historically, people, you know, husbandry was
Marc de Beer:was based on a lot of observation, right, spending a
Marc de Beer:lot of time watching animals, understanding their behavior,
Marc de Beer:seeing their habits, how environmental factors impact
Marc de Beer:them, doing it, over the amount of time and the scale that we do
Marc de Beer:it at, it's become more and more difficult to get human beings
Marc de Beer:who can have that level of detail and continued focus so
Marc de Beer:that our husbandry is as effective as it always has been.
Marc de Beer:So there's an area for example, where, you know, with computer
Marc de Beer:vision, we can observe behaviors at a large scale, over extended
Marc de Beer:periods of time, that can inform us about many things as it
Marc de Beer:relates to the flock and the flock health, flock behavior,
Marc de Beer:fertility, you know, interactions between
Marc de Beer:individuals, welfare. So there's one example I think of how we
Marc de Beer:could use that and which we are we actively doing that right now
Marc de Beer:including visual monitoring, but sound monitoring. And, you know,
Marc de Beer:again, having a human being sit there observing these things is
Marc de Beer:incredibly inefficient and not nearly as accurate as what a
Marc de Beer:machine can do it right. And we're learning that pretty
Marc de Beer:quickly. I think learning the full scale application of that
Marc de Beer:we're getting there, right, I think it would be premature to
Marc de Beer:suggest we've sort of said, well, great, we've turned over
Marc de Beer:the entire functions. But that's an area where I think we can be
Marc de Beer:a lot more effective. And then one I'm, you know, personally
Marc de Beer:fascinated by is planning, right, because when you've got a
Marc de Beer:biological product, a live product, we're not just talking
Marc de Beer:about a perishable product, we're talking about a living
Marc de Beer:animal that we're potentially shipping across the world, you
Marc de Beer:know, we could be shipping day old chicks to China, we could be
Marc de Beer:shipping them down, you know, essentially across the world.
Marc de Beer:Our ability to plan and make the most efficient supply chain
Marc de Beer:possible, when you've got a whole host of variable
Marc de Beer:biological inputs. It's extremely difficult for for a
Marc de Beer:group of humans to do it. And so maybe that's an area as well,
Marc de Beer:where where we could benefit a lot from from essentially having
Marc de Beer:it done by a machine with with the right inputs and learning
Marc de Beer:along the way. So, again, we're at the front end of that,
Matt Waller:I know that your mission, the mission of the
Matt Waller:company, is to ensure that the company, it's about having food
Matt Waller:on every table, how do you how do you make sure your company
Matt Waller:stays focused on that mission and doesn't get sidetracked by
Matt Waller:things that come along?
Marc de Beer:So we have a few things, our own as we were owned
Marc de Beer:by a family, the Erich Wesjohann and his family own our company.
Marc de Beer:And one thing that our owners, I think have been exceptional at
Marc de Beer:is ensuring focus. So it's very tempting, when you have a strong
Marc de Beer:company like ours, and you have you know, we're in a very strong
Marc de Beer:position. And we work with a lot of customers. And there's a lot
Marc de Beer:of adjacent, you know, opportunities that come along
Marc de Beer:and can be very distracting, they can be very lucrative or
Marc de Beer:very interesting. They've done an exceptional job of saying
Marc de Beer:Aviagen will focus on broiler breeding and genetics, you know,
Marc de Beer:if there's interest, because we have a customer who has
Marc de Beer:nutritional needs, or vaccine needs, or diagnostic needs, etc,
Marc de Beer:we might ultimately enter into that, but it will be through a
Marc de Beer:separate entity, it won't be through Aviagen. So we've, we've
Marc de Beer:been very, very focused on it. And I don't think, you know,
Marc de Beer:whether we tried or not our owners, I think are pretty
Marc de Beer:disciplined about making sure we stay focused on that. So our
Marc de Beer:mission is pretty clear, we want to provide the very best
Marc de Beer:breeding stock to our customers so that they can grow chickens
Marc de Beer:to keep people safe, affordable, abundant protein. And that's it,
Marc de Beer:you know, we weren't and we want to be the very, very, of course,
Marc de Beer:like anybody would tell you, we want to be the best at it. But
Marc de Beer:that is what we do. And that's what we will do, we will not
Marc de Beer:deviate from that. So it's not hard to stay focused in our in
Marc de Beer:our world, it won't take long to get redirected if we if we get
Marc de Beer:off track.
Matt Waller:What are some current trends or challenges in
Matt Waller:the poultry breeding industry? And how are you staying ahead of
Matt Waller:these changes to remain competitive.
Marc de Beer:So obviously, the issues that our industry faces
Marc de Beer:are the ones that are most interesting to us, right? So
Marc de Beer:we're trying to ensure that whatever we send our customer
Marc de Beer:gives them the best chance to succeed. Important to realize
Marc de Beer:that, and I don't have a picture for you, but it'd be good if I
Marc de Beer:had a picture to show you. Our most valuable, you know, the
Marc de Beer:pedigree level are very, very best birds, their offspring will
Marc de Beer:eventually reach the market, somewhere between four and five
Marc de Beer:years from now. So all of the decisions we're making the
Marc de Beer:selections, the genetic progress we make, you know, once we've
Marc de Beer:made those selections at the pedigree level, we've
Marc de Beer:essentially locked in what's coming for the next 4 to 5
Marc de Beer:years, right. So we do spend a lot of time thinking about what
Marc de Beer:the sort of the medium term future holds. And we get a lot
Marc de Beer:of time from our customers, and we end so you know, things that
Marc de Beer:obviously, efficiency and the ability to produce, as always,
Marc de Beer:you know, produce efficiently is always going to be a challenge.
Marc de Beer:So, you know, commodity prices have, you know, the input costs
Marc de Beer:of our customers are very high. Meat prices today are not super
Marc de Beer:high. They've been pretty volatile. So those things will
Marc de Beer:always be big drivers as a sort of foundational drivers of our
Marc de Beer:customers business and we won't lose focus on those. Something
Marc de Beer:very topical right now. And it's it's virtually a global
Marc de Beer:phenomenon at this point is Avian Influenza. And so, you
Marc de Beer:know, it's probably, you know, people in the United States
Marc de Beer:would have picked up on that in that context of egg prices, you
Marc de Beer:know, looking at the cost of an egg in a grocery store. And so
Marc de Beer:we've had a sort of an ongoing Avian Influenza challenge.
Marc de Beer:Europe has been particularly hard hit by that. And then of
Marc de Beer:course, here in the US, we've also had our challenges. So, and
Marc de Beer:many countries around the world for that matter, as a breeding,
Marc de Beer:there's export limitations if you if you run into AI or Avian
Marc de Beer:Influenza in a particular area, it creates export limitations
Marc de Beer:and creates, you know, other challenges for the business. So,
Marc de Beer:redundancy and security of supply is a huge part of our
Marc de Beer:sort of, you know, challenge looking forward, you know, how
Marc de Beer:do our customers feel certain they can get our products,
Marc de Beer:whatever the disease challenges might be in a given part of the
Marc de Beer:world. So, that'd be a big one. And obviously, we do that
Marc de Beer:through biosecurity through, you know, redundant supply bases,
Marc de Beer:hopefully, we can have, you know, if one place gets locked
Marc de Beer:down, we've got somewhere else to bring birds from. So those,
Marc de Beer:and then I think, you know, it's a little bit of a what, even if
Marc de Beer:it's a buzzword anymore, but our customers are challenged more
Marc de Beer:and more, I think with questions about their sustainability
Marc de Beer:initiatives, their footprint, you know, we've done a lot of
Marc de Beer:work, being more efficient, inherently helps you be more
Marc de Beer:sustainable, right? So, but we've also got a lot of work
Marc de Beer:going on and how we ourselves can be more more efficient and
Marc de Beer:sustainable and then sort of pass that on to our customers
Marc de Beer:down the road.
Matt Waller:That's terrific. Well, Marc, thank you so much
Matt Waller:for joining us today. And also, congratulations on your
Matt Waller:remarkable career. Very impressive.
Marc de Beer:Thank you much. Appreciate it. Enjoy being here.
Matt Waller:On behalf of the Sam M. Walton College of
Matt Waller:Business, I want to thank everyone for spending time with
Matt Waller:us for another engaging conversation. You can subscribe
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