Episode 232

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Published on:

21st Jun 2023

Improving Economic Performance in the Heartland with Ross DeVol and Blake Woolsey

This week on the podcast, Matt sits down with Heartland Forward’s President and CEO Ross DeVol and Chief Communications and Development Officer Blake Woolsey. They begin with Ross explaining what Heartland Forward does and their goal of focusing on improving economic performance in the American Heartland. They then dive into how Ross and Blake became involved in Heartland Forward and where their passions for economic development in the Heartland comes from. They close out by discussing how Heartland Forward supports and encourages entrepreneurs to experiment and grow their ideas through their Community Growth Program. 

Transcript
Blake Woolsey:

Having had the family as a first mover in

Blake Woolsey:

investing and as at the same time, we are looking for those

Blake Woolsey:

other investors because it's only going to allow us to

Blake Woolsey:

continue the momentum that we have today.

Matt Waller:

Excellence, professionalism, innovation and

Matt Waller:

collegiality. These are the values the Sam M. Walton College

Matt Waller:

of Business explores the education, business, and the

Matt Waller:

lives of people we meet every day. I'm Matt Waller, Dean of

Matt Waller:

the Walton College and welcome to the be epic podcast. I have

Matt Waller:

with me today, Ross Devol who's president and CEO of Heartland

Matt Waller:

Forward. He has been a Walton Fellow with the Walton Family

Matt Waller:

Foundation. For almost 20 years he was with the Milken

Matt Waller:

Institute, and served as Chief Research Officer. And he has

Matt Waller:

other amazing experiences. So glad to have you here. Ross,

Matt Waller:

thank you for joining us.

Ross DeVol:

I'm glad to be here Matt, it's a great opportunity

Ross DeVol:

to be part of your podcast.

Matt Waller:

And I also have with me today, Blake Woolsey,

Matt Waller:

who is Chief Communications and Development Officer for

Matt Waller:

Heartland Forward. And she has extensive experience in

Matt Waller:

communications. She formerly was Executive Vice President of

Matt Waller:

Mitchell communications for almost 10 years. But I got to

Matt Waller:

know Blake a long time ago back in the 90s, when she was

Matt Waller:

director of development for the Walton College.

Blake Woolsey:

Yes.

Blake Woolsey:

She was arguably the most successful director of

Blake Woolsey:

development we've ever had.

Blake Woolsey:

Well I loved my job so and it was right time, right place for

Blake Woolsey:

sure.

Matt Waller:

Well, it is such a thrill to have you both here.

Matt Waller:

And Ross, of course, I started following your publications,

Matt Waller:

when you were at the Milken Institute, because they were so

Matt Waller:

relevant to things I was interested in, like

Matt Waller:

entrepreneurship and higher education and technology

Matt Waller:

commercialization. So you have a long history in looking at these

Matt Waller:

kinds of variables. And now that you've been with Heartland

Matt Waller:

Forward, would you mind just providing a brief overview of

Matt Waller:

what Heartland Forward is, and its mission?

Ross DeVol:

Glad to do so, Matt. This was a remarkable

Ross DeVol:

opportunity for me personally, as you know, I'm from an of the

Ross DeVol:

heartland and the ability to focus my research areas in

Ross DeVol:

programmatic impact areas in entrepreneurship, innovation,

Ross DeVol:

University Technology Transfer, the role of industrial r&d,

Ross DeVol:

building human capital, stem, on the center of the country, with

Ross DeVol:

the idea, what we refer to as the Heartland, it's 20 states as

Ross DeVol:

we define it, it's a large Heartland from Michigan in the

Ross DeVol:

northeast, South to Alabama, west to Texas and north to North

Ross DeVol:

Dakota and everything in between. So it's those 20 states

Ross DeVol:

there. But to really focus on how can we improve economic

Ross DeVol:

performance in those 20 states, we're based here in Northwest

Ross DeVol:

Arkansas. But our footprint is across the American Heartland.

Ross DeVol:

And I was approached by family members, Walton family members,

Ross DeVol:

back in early 2017. And by the Summer of 2017, we'd made an

Ross DeVol:

agreement that this there was a pathway forward, there was a

Ross DeVol:

need for this, because there was a divergence in economic growth

Ross DeVol:

between the coasts and kind of its knowledge intensity, its

Ross DeVol:

technology, focus. And per capita incomes were not keeping

Ross DeVol:

up in the center of the country, with what was happening on the

Ross DeVol:

coasts. And so that's where this idea came from, was to try and

Ross DeVol:

improve job creation in the Heartland, the quality of those

Ross DeVol:

jobs that are created, and all the attributes from human

Ross DeVol:

capital, innovation, entrepreneurship, health, well

Ross DeVol:

being to boost things here.

Matt Waller:

Well you know, one thing I've always liked about

Matt Waller:

your research is, you write it in a way that is very

Matt Waller:

accessible, even though you're using lots of sophisticated

Matt Waller:

statistics. But it's also actionable because you your

Matt Waller:

research uncovers which variables are making a big

Matt Waller:

difference. And so I know that it's interesting, because I

Matt Waller:

remember the first report I read of yours I can't when it was but

Matt Waller:

I thought, Well, with this being known I'm surprised all regions

Matt Waller:

aren't implementing these kinds of things. But

Ross DeVol:

It's interesting point you make. I sometimes feel

Ross DeVol:

the same way sometimes. Some of my research staff gets upset

Ross DeVol:

with me because I say no, you've written that for an academic

Ross DeVol:

journal. And there's a place for that, but that's not the

Ross DeVol:

audience we're trying to address here. But here's an example. The

Ross DeVol:

greatest kind of confidence boost and positive statement

Ross DeVol:

that one can make about your work was what I experienced at

Ross DeVol:

the Milken Institute global conference just a couple of

Ross DeVol:

weeks ago, I was in a meeting with Lowell Milken, who is Mike

Ross DeVol:

Milkin's brother, and, you know, has worked with the Milken

Ross DeVol:

Family Foundation, since he was in his early 30s. And he had

Ross DeVol:

been having private meetings with governors across the

Ross DeVol:

country, governor of Hawaii, governor of Virginia, governor

Ross DeVol:

of Arkansas was there as well, governor of Kentucky. And he had

Ross DeVol:

one of our reports out on entrepreneurship he had the

Ross DeVol:

pages flipped and it showed it was a chart, I'm going to try

Ross DeVol:

and explain it in x and y axis, the Y axis being knowledge

Ross DeVol:

intensity of young firms, firms from five years of age or less,

Ross DeVol:

what percent of employees had at least a bachelor's degree or

Ross DeVol:

above. And then on the on the y axis, it had the percent of

Ross DeVol:

employment at private firms, the five years of age or less of

Ross DeVol:

total employment. So what that share was, so it kind of gives

Ross DeVol:

you a sense of the knowledge intensity as well as the overall

Ross DeVol:

kind of mainstreet entrepreneurship. And Lowell was

Ross DeVol:

telling each of these governors who subsequently informed me, he

Ross DeVol:

told them, this is the most important thing you should be

Ross DeVol:

looking at. If I were, you know, valuating, your performance,

Ross DeVol:

this is what I would look to. So that's what you're trying to do

Ross DeVol:

when you're conducting the research. You can't a priori

Ross DeVol:

know where it's going to end up, you have a hypothesis, you have

Ross DeVol:

to test it. But not everyone wants to see your statistical

Ross DeVol:

bells and whistles and you put them in the appendix. Now that

Ross DeVol:

drives some of my staff crazy, but that's okay.

Blake Woolsey:

Yeah. But I think as from a comms perspective,

Blake Woolsey:

since communications is really where my focus is, and we think

Blake Woolsey:

ourselves as a think and do tank. And really, for us, that's

Blake Woolsey:

a differentiator, because a lot of people are think tanks. But

Blake Woolsey:

really, we're looking at the think, as applied research, to

Blake Woolsey:

then be able to then inform the programmatic, the do work of

Blake Woolsey:

ours. And when I'm from a communications perspective, you

Blake Woolsey:

Well you know Blake, you also have a lot of experience in this

Blake Woolsey:

know, for anybody who's done communications, the very first

Blake Woolsey:

thing you think about is who are who's our audience and who are

Blake Woolsey:

we communicating to? And the reality is, we can't make it so

Blake Woolsey:

complicated, Matt, that people who are say, say, I'm a checker

Blake Woolsey:

at a grocery store, but I serve on my city council in my local

Blake Woolsey:

community, that I don't understand what Heartland

Blake Woolsey:

Forward is sharing with me to where I actually could

Blake Woolsey:

understand it, and help drive a policy decision sitting from the

Blake Woolsey:

city council, you know, from that seat that I'm sitting in.

Blake Woolsey:

So we have to make it to where everybody can understand it, not

Blake Woolsey:

just some people understand it, because we're trying to educate

Blake Woolsey:

people in the process as to what can make their economy

Blake Woolsey:

successful. So that's a lot of different eyes and ears that we

Blake Woolsey:

need to be communicating to.

Blake Woolsey:

region. And in the heartland, what made you interested in

Blake Woolsey:

joining heartland?

Blake Woolsey:

I guess one, because I've always considered myself a builder. I

Blake Woolsey:

love drafting behind great leaders. You know that because

Blake Woolsey:

we both worked for Doyle Williams, he was here as the

Blake Woolsey:

dean. And that was why that time here was so incredible, because

Blake Woolsey:

it was such a building moment. And when Ross and then also

Blake Woolsey:

Buddy Philpot of the Walton family, he had been the

Blake Woolsey:

executive director for some time there approached me about this,

Blake Woolsey:

it was the idea of starting something that really could have

Blake Woolsey:

an impact. And every time I wake up in the morning and think

Blake Woolsey:

about putting my feet on the side of the bed to do something

Blake Woolsey:

in life, I really want to know that it has a deep purpose. Is

Blake Woolsey:

it serving other people? So how could somebody not be passionate

Blake Woolsey:

about such a mission? I've always been in the heartland, I

Blake Woolsey:

grew up in Texas. I've spent more time here in the state of

Blake Woolsey:

Arkansas, and I see the need, I see the need. So how can I help

Blake Woolsey:

contribute to that? Probably the primary reason, of course.

Matt Waller:

You know, Ross, one thing that's really neat about

Matt Waller:

you is you're a strong researcher, you've spent a lot

Matt Waller:

of your career doing research. But you're also a leader, you're

Matt Waller:

leading Heartland Forward now as CEO. And I know when you were at

Matt Waller:

the Milken Institute, you were head of research. So you were

Matt Waller:

you had your hands in many different pots. And I remember

Matt Waller:

the first time before you were with Heartland Forward, but when

Matt Waller:

I spent some time with you, when you were with the Milken

Matt Waller:

Institute, I could tell after a day or two that you had a

Matt Waller:

million different projects going on. I I don't know how you kept

Matt Waller:

it straight. What made you excited about coming and

Matt Waller:

starting this initiative here?

Ross DeVol:

Well, it's a great question, Matt. You know, I was

Ross DeVol:

born and raised outside of Columbus, Ohio, in a small town

Ross DeVol:

called Lancaster, Ohio. And I'd spent most spent my entire adult

Ross DeVol:

career other than one stint in Omaha, Nebraska and my first job

Ross DeVol:

out of graduate school with Union Pacific Railroad as an

Ross DeVol:

economic forecaster there, but on the East Coast, principally

Ross DeVol:

Philadelphia, where I worked at Wharton Econometrics and Chase

Ross DeVol:

Manhattan Bank. And I'd worked for CSX, both in Baltimore and

Ross DeVol:

Jacksonville, Florida. But then I'd spent, you know, 20 years at

Ross DeVol:

the Milken Institute in LA, you know, embedded in in the West

Ross DeVol:

Coast entrepreneurial ecosystem, Silicon Valley, and all that I'd

Ross DeVol:

been studying this. And I'd always, in the studies I had

Ross DeVol:

done over the years, one was in Arkansas back in the early

Ross DeVol:

2000s. We've done work in Nebraska, Minnesota,

Ross DeVol:

Minneapolis, in particular. And I always wanted to see what

Ross DeVol:

could happen if we applied some of the principles that we've

Ross DeVol:

learned from what was happening on the coast, to convince

Ross DeVol:

political leaders, business leaders, and other key

Ross DeVol:

stakeholders, the changes they needed to make, to be able to

Ross DeVol:

grow per capita incomes, create high quality jobs. And you can

Ross DeVol:

just see the disjointedness, of course, there were external

Ross DeVol:

factors at play. When China entered the World Trade

Ross DeVol:

Organization, you saw the import penetration in communities

Ross DeVol:

across the country, coming from China, in a direct association

Ross DeVol:

with what that share was in the imports. And so there had been a

Ross DeVol:

great deal of dislocation in the heartland. And I just thought it

Ross DeVol:

was such a great opportunity that members of the Walton

Ross DeVol:

family were so passionate and dedicated to it that they were

Ross DeVol:

willing to provide us with the seed capital to form Heartland

Ross DeVol:

Forward.

Matt Waller:

Blake, of course, you've been engaged in

Matt Waller:

development work, you've been engaged in working for a

Matt Waller:

marketing firm, Mitchell.

Blake Woolsey:

Yes. Yes.

Matt Waller:

I would think those are complementary.

Blake Woolsey:

I would hope so, it's been my career, Matt. I've

Blake Woolsey:

liked it.

Matt Waller:

How are you bringing those experiences to

Matt Waller:

Heartland Forward?

Blake Woolsey:

Again, starting and building, it's been great to

Blake Woolsey:

be able to have such a runway, and to be able to think that

Blake Woolsey:

every single time we come in contact with somebody they need

Blake Woolsey:

to know about us. And so, first and foremost, it's about

Blake Woolsey:

amplifying our brand. And so that's so important, but at the

Blake Woolsey:

same time, it's telling the story that we are a public

Blake Woolsey:

charity, we are a 501c3, and explaining that even though the

Blake Woolsey:

Walton family as we know them are first mover's, we know how

Blake Woolsey:

generous they are. And they will see that there is a need, and

Blake Woolsey:

they will move to help figure out what's the solution for

Blake Woolsey:

that. But at the same time, they know for our credibility, which

Blake Woolsey:

is part of the story, right, which is, that's when you begin

Blake Woolsey:

to intersect that calm side of yes, but it cannot just be us

Blake Woolsey:

alone for the credibility of the work of trying to help

Blake Woolsey:

accelerate the economic performance in the middle of a

Blake Woolsey:

country. That is all that's going to be requiring everybody

Blake Woolsey:

to put their hand in and say, This is how I can help. And this

Blake Woolsey:

is how we'd like to partner. So I'm hoping that my experience is

Blake Woolsey:

helping amplify, educate, inform, so that people do

Blake Woolsey:

understand what the need is, and how we truly are in just the

Blake Woolsey:

three years that we have been in existence, that we are have so

Blake Woolsey:

much momentum and making such inroads that we're a good bet to

Blake Woolsey:

invest in, because we are seeing already some of our metrics

Blake Woolsey:

being achieved, which is exciting, which was really

Blake Woolsey:

exciting.

Matt Waller:

Ross, in your research and initiatives, what

Matt Waller:

have you identified as the key strengths and opportunities for

Matt Waller:

growth within the heartland region?

Ross DeVol:

and some private ones as well. And on the East

Ross DeVol:

and West Coast, those universities we think about MIT,

Ross DeVol:

you think about Stanford on the West Coast, they've been heavily

Ross DeVol:

involved in building their entrepreneurial ecosystems

Ross DeVol:

through commercialization of research, technology transfer,

Ross DeVol:

having new firms started based on intellectual property that

Ross DeVol:

was created at those institutions. And I just think

Ross DeVol:

there's so many more opportunities to engage in those

Ross DeVol:

activities in the Heartland. And it's partly because some

Ross DeVol:

governors over the years have not been as involved in

Ross DeVol:

understanding the importance of it. leadership amongst

Ross DeVol:

universities, in many areas of the Heartland, I don't think

Ross DeVol:

have been attuned to how important their role is in the

Ross DeVol:

modern knowledge based economy. And so partly, it's about

Ross DeVol:

explaining these facts to leaders at the university level,

Ross DeVol:

at the business level, and at the policy leader level at the

Ross DeVol:

government's level. So that's, that's a major area, I think,

Ross DeVol:

also is reforming, adjusting the curriculums that are offered in

Ross DeVol:

many programs. So in many cases, businesses speak a different

Ross DeVol:

language than the Academy does and they don't know how to

Ross DeVol:

interact. I think also another area is career technical

Ross DeVol:

education, which we my dad was involved in vocational education

Ross DeVol:

in the state of Ohio for many years. And I remember him

Ross DeVol:

telling me when I was in undergraduate school, son, we

Ross DeVol:

made vocational education a dirty word, and I pointed out

Ross DeVol:

dad, that's two words. But I didn't, you had to know my dad.

Ross DeVol:

But anyhow, his point was well taken. And what he meant is we

Ross DeVol:

told people, if your kids do not go into a college ready program,

Ross DeVol:

to go to a four year degree, there's no future for them,

Ross DeVol:

basically. And so we told them, you're kind of lost. Well, we

Ross DeVol:

have seen today that you can actually achieve a middle class

Ross DeVol:

income, through career technical education, whether it's a two

Ross DeVol:

year associate degree, whether that's certifications, but the

Ross DeVol:

curriculum seemed to be adjusted on a regular basis to fit the

Ross DeVol:

needs of employers. And so there's been this large

Ross DeVol:

disconnect. I would say those are some of the the major areas,

Ross DeVol:

both building human capital, the involvement of universities, and

Ross DeVol:

overall, just engagement in entrepreneurship. A lot of my

Ross DeVol:

studies have shown that and others have as well.

Matt Waller:

And remember, one of your studies really showed

Matt Waller:

the importance of new business starts. I can't remember what

Matt Waller:

you titled

Ross DeVol:

Young Firms.

Matt Waller:

Yeah, young firms, it was a key driver in some of

Matt Waller:

those studies.

Ross DeVol:

Yes, so we've done a lot of this gets a little bit to

Ross DeVol:

the more academic side. But the federal government has a number

Ross DeVol:

of databases that are never linked together. And so there

Ross DeVol:

hasn't been much research done on kind of business dynamics,

Ross DeVol:

looking at the age of firms, their employment levels, and

Ross DeVol:

some characteristics of them. And so I've long argued, in

Ross DeVol:

analyzing the data, yes, startups are great. But it's

Ross DeVol:

what you do with a startups that really matter. So you need to be

Ross DeVol:

able to start new companies, but also be able to scale them up.

Ross DeVol:

And that gets into access early stage risk capital, which is

Ross DeVol:

another issue for the Heartland states compared to the coasts.

Ross DeVol:

And when you're creating companies that create jobs,

Ross DeVol:

you're going to have more firms that achieve kind of middle

Ross DeVol:

market status, where they scale up rapidly and go from employing

Ross DeVol:

250 people to 2,500 people. And it's those communities that have

Ross DeVol:

the highest proportion of those companies that are scaling up

Ross DeVol:

that are ones that are creating those high quality jobs and

Ross DeVol:

opportunities for people. And so that is so essential that it

Ross DeVol:

happens in the Heartland, but it's just not as frequent of

Ross DeVol:

occurrence here. And so a lot of our efforts are geared towards

Ross DeVol:

building entrepreneurship at the earliest stages.

Matt Waller:

You know, Blake, there's all kinds of great

Matt Waller:

research that comes out of Heartland Forward, like what

Matt Waller:

what Ross was talking about. Who is your target market for those,

Matt Waller:

those research reports? And how do you market it?

Blake Woolsey:

Right. Well, so as you can imagine, I am always

Blake Woolsey:

trying to cultivate relationships with our national

Blake Woolsey:

business, economic, you know, those folks that have that beat.

Blake Woolsey:

And so oftentimes, we're not looking for them necessarily to

Blake Woolsey:

say, oh, they just released this report and this is what it says,

Blake Woolsey:

it's really talking and knowing what they're writing about, and

Blake Woolsey:

how can the reports that we're producing inform their story so

Blake Woolsey:

that we are a resource for them. And they can say and Heartland

Blake Woolsey:

Forward, says X, Y, and Z when it comes to this point that

Blake Woolsey:

they're trying to make in their story. So that's been one huge

Blake Woolsey:

lift for me, is to make sure we have really strong

Blake Woolsey:

relationships. And you know, how small newsrooms are right now.

Blake Woolsey:

And it's hard sometimes to get their attention. But I always

Blake Woolsey:

say we want to be your Heartland economic resource, we want you

Blake Woolsey:

to be thinking about us whenever you have a question whether we

Blake Woolsey:

can answer it or not. Because if we can't answer it, we will

Blake Woolsey:

refer you to another think tank who's got that area of focus.

Blake Woolsey:

But for the for the most part, that's where we begin. But then

Blake Woolsey:

we start even moving further down into who are the

Blake Woolsey:

policymakers that need to be aware of this, whether I'm

Blake Woolsey:

reaching out to a chief of staff or a comms director to a

Blake Woolsey:

governor, or we're moving into even a layer of counties or

Blake Woolsey:

cities, to where everybody is, in chambers being aware, because

Blake Woolsey:

we're trying to the point about entrepreneurship is for people

Blake Woolsey:

to understand that they don't need to just be chasing

Blake Woolsey:

smokestacks, because that is a 1 in a million shot like an Elon

Blake Woolsey:

Musk going to the Austin Pflugerville area. What you

Blake Woolsey:

could be doing is really supporting your startups in a

Blake Woolsey:

way and those existing businesses to keep driving them

Blake Woolsey:

forward to get access to the capital that they need and the

Blake Woolsey:

support that they need to really help your economy and so we

Blake Woolsey:

really do look at it as a myriad of stakeholders, which requires

Blake Woolsey:

all different people making phone calls and emails. I mean,

Blake Woolsey:

we've got two interns who are helping us even in reaching out

Blake Woolsey:

just so that it gets the traction, some of these reports

Blake Woolsey:

get the traction that they need.

Ross DeVol:

And so if Blake or a communications director does

Ross DeVol:

their job, you know, Blake just attended the Milken Institute

Ross DeVol:

Global Conference with me and met Skip Reimer the former head

Ross DeVol:

of communications there. And she learned that it's true that I

Ross DeVol:

used to evaluate our

Blake Woolsey:

Oh, yeah, oh I know what he's gonna say.

Ross DeVol:

So one of the things I used to do was when we

Ross DeVol:

released the report that morning, if the website went

Ross DeVol:

down, it was a success.

Blake Woolsey:

He wants the website to crash, so that's my

Blake Woolsey:

aspirational goal is like, we're gonna have our website crashed.

Ross DeVol:

Because there's so many people accessing it.

Matt Waller:

Well using some of the new AI tools, we could

Matt Waller:

probably be able to do that.

Blake Woolsey:

We might be able to do that. Matt, you need to

Blake Woolsey:

help me. Let's figure that out.

Ross DeVol:

Then she'll put it in her objectives and I'll have

Ross DeVol:

to pay her for it.

Matt Waller:

So you were talking about the opportunities. One

Matt Waller:

thing I thought of too, is small businesses, we've had a number.

Matt Waller:

I mean, I've been a professor here for 29 years. And I've seen

Matt Waller:

a lot of our alumni start their own businesses, everything from,

Matt Waller:

you know, restaurants to technology companies that are

Matt Waller:

not scalable, but they're small businesses, and many, many other

Matt Waller:

kinds of small businesses, construction, and I've seen some

Matt Waller:

of them do quite well. I mean, way more successful than I would

Matt Waller:

have ever imagined 30 years ago when I was first meeting some of

Matt Waller:

these people. I it seems like that's also an important

Matt Waller:

variable in this, is that right?

Ross DeVol:

Oh, no, it, it clearly is. So in addition to

Ross DeVol:

starting software companies, other tech companies, whether

Ross DeVol:

it's social media, whatever it might be, the digital economy,

Ross DeVol:

there is a main street, as well. So that means it's not

Ross DeVol:

necessarily a business that's going to reach kind of middle

Ross DeVol:

market status, but could employ you know family members, maybe

Ross DeVol:

it employs 50 people. But the more of those you have, there's

Ross DeVol:

a high multiplier effect as well across the economy. So you can't

Ross DeVol:

just think about technology driven entrepreneurship,

Ross DeVol:

although it clearly has about a two to one, relationship,

Ross DeVol:

technology entrepreneurship is twice as important as other

Ross DeVol:

forms of, of entrepreneurship in terms of their longer term job

Ross DeVol:

creation impacts, but they are critical to the diversity.

Ross DeVol:

Because if you're left one of the economy with two or three

Ross DeVol:

large employers without entrepreneurship occurring,

Ross DeVol:

being seated that ecosystem around it, if some negative

Ross DeVol:

shock occurs in those industries of those employers, there's

Ross DeVol:

large ones, you can take down a whole area, just look to upstate

Ross DeVol:

New York, what happened to Kodak.

Matt Waller:

Good point,

Ross DeVol:

You look around, these were technology leaders in

Ross DeVol:

their fields. And, you know, they didn't stay at the leading

Ross DeVol:

edge of technology, and somebody else came along and arbitraged

Ross DeVol:

them away.

Matt Waller:

It's a good point,

Blake Woolsey:

I want to share at one of the programs, so we've

Blake Woolsey:

talked about applied research and young firms is a report,

Blake Woolsey:

which continues to resonate with so many different people. And it

Blake Woolsey:

was one of the first one of the one of the first of few reports

Blake Woolsey:

that Heartland Forward has done. But on that applied research and

Blake Woolsey:

informing our programmatic work, we really look when we are think

Blake Woolsey:

and do tank at the bootstraps on the ground. And so we partner

Blake Woolsey:

with an organization right now called Builders and Backers, led

Blake Woolsey:

by Donna Harris, she was in the Obama administration, she

Blake Woolsey:

founded 1776. And she had done a bunch of research to over what I

Blake Woolsey:

think she thought was going to be a short period of time, it

Blake Woolsey:

ended up being three years of research to say, why do we not

Blake Woolsey:

have as many entrepreneurs, what is going on, to learn that it's

Blake Woolsey:

everybody's got an idea. But it's getting that idea off the

Blake Woolsey:

sidelines because some people aren't banked to be able to go

Blake Woolsey:

get a loan. They they don't have family members who can loan them

Blake Woolsey:

money. They don't want to quit their job, they may be in

Blake Woolsey:

school. And so we have started a program called community growth

Blake Woolsey:

program, where we go into communities within the

Blake Woolsey:

Heartland, we usually work with cohorts, somewhere between 10

Blake Woolsey:

and 20. The community has a vested interest financially as

Blake Woolsey:

well as us by providing the expertise and we take 90 days

Blake Woolsey:

with the applicants who we have chosen to take their ideas,

Blake Woolsey:

teach them how to put those ideas into practice to become a

Blake Woolsey:

business. We give them a $5,000 non dilutive grant so there's no

Blake Woolsey:

strings attached for them to experiment on that idea to see

Blake Woolsey:

if it's going to stick and is this a business that I can

Blake Woolsey:

actually take and scale or not.

Matt Waller:

So this is a really good this part of the

Matt Waller:

conversation really demonstrates the think and do.

Blake Woolsey:

Yes,

Matt Waller:

Part. And that's that's a really neat innovation.

Matt Waller:

Because you're right, so many think tanks, they think, think

Matt Waller:

think think. But they don't have any do piece. Here's an example

Matt Waller:

of how you're actually doing something with the results of

Matt Waller:

the research.

Blake Woolsey:

We want the policymakers and other leaders

Blake Woolsey:

to be looking at saying what's happening on the ground. I mean,

Blake Woolsey:

you get it from this level, but you also get it from this level

Blake Woolsey:

for us to be that resource as well. What's happening? What are

Blake Woolsey:

you seeing? What are you? What are you hearing right now,

Blake Woolsey:

because that's the kind of resource that we see ourselves

Blake Woolsey:

as.

Ross DeVol:

It's right. And a great example, this was Jim

Ross DeVol:

Walton was in Birmingham, Alabama, working on some K

Ross DeVol:

through 12 education reforms and meeting with the mayor of

Ross DeVol:

Birmingham. And we have a community growth program cohort

Ross DeVol:

in Birmingham currently. And so he was there meeting with the

Ross DeVol:

mayor. And the mayor was telling him what great things they have

Ross DeVol:

achieved through our community growth program, training some of

Ross DeVol:

their younger people, and even middle aged individuals, the

Ross DeVol:

basics of entrepreneurship, how to think like an entrepreneur,

Ross DeVol:

and pointing out that their labor force participation rate

Ross DeVol:

of those that did not graduate from high school was so much

Ross DeVol:

lower than the rest of the country. And why was that? Well,

Ross DeVol:

part of the answer was, levels of entrepreneurship are much

Ross DeVol:

lower. They had not been trained to see that as an option for

Ross DeVol:

them if they couldn't necessarily find a job or want a

Ross DeVol:

job in an area that they were qualified for. And so we've been

Ross DeVol:

working with the mayor's office there to help train some of

Ross DeVol:

these people to think more entrepreneurially. And how to

Ross DeVol:

ideate. And envision is this a scalable idea into a business?

Matt Waller:

What great stories, and to think, Heartland Forward

Matt Waller:

is so young, and you're already making it.

Ross DeVol:

Here's my favorite one, though, Matt. Bear with me

Ross DeVol:

for this one. So I for many years prior to COVID, and, you

Matt Waller:

Yes.

Matt Waller:

know, the whole supply chain interruptions that resulted from

Matt Waller:

that was pointed out to people that the advantages of locating

Matt Waller:

advanced manufacturing in China were diminishing to the extent

Matt Waller:

because of the wage differentials were narrowing.

Matt Waller:

And the productivity gaps were still large, productivity in

Matt Waller:

America, in most cases, still substantially higher than it is

Matt Waller:

in China. And so it didn't make sense to keep putting all these

Matt Waller:

semiconductor plants and chip plants and other, you know, high

Matt Waller:

end technology manufacturing there. And it took COVID to

Matt Waller:

really see that we've become overly reliant on China in our

Matt Waller:

supply chain. So Intel was then thinking about, maybe we need to

Matt Waller:

diversify our base as well. They'd never located a plant

Matt Waller:

east of the Mississippi River in the United States. And we did a

Ross DeVol:

And this was one of those cases where because of

Ross DeVol:

report on reshoring manufacturing, can the heartland

Ross DeVol:

lead the way, that was partially supported by Jobs Ohio, which is

Ross DeVol:

their economic development arm. That was utilized to inform

Ross DeVol:

Intel's leadership and their CEO Pat Gelsinger that they should

Ross DeVol:

be taking a look at the American Heartland. And in fact, when it

Ross DeVol:

was announced at the White House, Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of

Ross DeVol:

Intel said we put silicon in Silicon Valley and now we're

Ross DeVol:

putting silicon in the Heartland. That computer chip

Ross DeVol:

plant, two initially, is being located 25, 25 miles north of

Ross DeVol:

where I grew up in Lancaster, Ohio. That was the middle of a

Ross DeVol:

cornfield. It had a butchering shop out in the front. It's a

Ross DeVol:

huge facility going in there. And I had the chance to tour it

Ross DeVol:

just as they were breaking ground. So it was a remarkable

Ross DeVol:

kind of once in a career opportunity, where many times

Ross DeVol:

you feel you've done work to help set the stage for something

Ross DeVol:

serendipity things got done quickly and there it was

Ross DeVol:

but wasn't there to see it through.

Matt Waller:

Wow, that is what a story.

Matt Waller:

It happened.

Matt Waller:

Well, Ross and Blake, congratulations on the amazing

Matt Waller:

success you already have and for the vision going forward. And

Matt Waller:

thank you for what you're doing for the heartland.

Ross DeVol:

Well, thank you Matt for the opportunity to share the

Ross DeVol:

work that the organization is doing.

Blake Woolsey:

Yeah. Thank you.

Matt Waller:

On behalf of the Sam M. Walton College of

Matt Waller:

Business, I want to thank everyone for spending time with

Matt Waller:

us for another engaging conversation. You can subscribe

Matt Waller:

by going to your favorite podcast service and searching Be

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About the Podcast

Be EPIC Podcast
Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast featuring Brent Williams, interim dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. In each episode, you will hear from guests that will inspire you to be epic. As experts in their field, they will emphasize strategy, leadership, and entrepreneurship. This programming will highlight innovation and cutting-edge information that will leave you wanting more. Be sure to connect with Brent Williams on LinkedIn to join the conversation, access show notes and discover fantastic bonus content.