Episode 248

full
Published on:

11th Oct 2023

Driving Momentum in Arkansas' Climbing Economy with Dennis Nelms

This week on the podcast we continue with the Business of Outdoor Recreation series with Dennis Nelms to discuss the growing industry of climbing in Arkansas. Dennis is the owner of Climb Solutions LLC and Vertical LLC. During the episode Dennis shares his personal journey with climbing in Northwest Arkansas and throughout the United States as well as his work now to expand climbing in the state of Arkansas. He outlines Arkansas' abundance of high quality, accessible rock formations and highlights the accessibility that is available only in our state for the sport. Dennis also shares his passion-driven path and important advice for pursuing interests, no matter the job.

Transcript
Dennis Nelms:

And when you look at the central US, and you look

Dennis Nelms:

at what climbing availability there is, if you go from Chicago

Dennis Nelms:

to Houston, and then out to Oklahoma City, and over to

Dennis Nelms:

Memphis say 85% of the climbing in that whole area is here in

Dennis Nelms:

the Ozarks.

Brent Williams:

Welcome to the Be Epic podcast brought to you

Brent Williams:

by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of

Brent Williams:

Arkansas. I'm your host Brent Williams. Together, we'll

Brent Williams:

explore the dynamic landscape of business and uncover the

Brent Williams:

strategies, insights, and stories that drive business

Brent Williams:

today. Well, today, I have with me, Dennis Nelms and Dennis owns

Brent Williams:

Climb Solutions LLC, based out of Northwest Arkansas. So

Brent Williams:

Dennis, thanks for joining me today.

Dennis Nelms:

You're welcome. Thanks for having me here.

Brent Williams:

Well, excited to have you here. And talk about

Brent Williams:

outdoor recreation. We're going to talk about climbing more

Brent Williams:

specifically. But maybe I need to start with you. Tell me a

Brent Williams:

little bit about you. Tell me about your background. And then

Brent Williams:

we'll kind of get into how you got into climbing.

Dennis Nelms:

Ok. So we don't have that much time. So I'll

Dennis Nelms:

keep it short as I can. But I grew up here in Fayetteville,

Dennis Nelms:

went to the U of A and was introduced climbing and when I

Dennis Nelms:

was 20. I was going to a fraternity and just I was a lost

Dennis Nelms:

ex football player that had no direction and just got hooked

Dennis Nelms:

and just fell in love with it and decided that's what I wanted

Dennis Nelms:

to do with my time. And so I've over a period of time learned as

Dennis Nelms:

much as I could here in Northwest Arkansas and then set

Dennis Nelms:

off for a 10 year journey and lived out of my truck and

Dennis Nelms:

traveled all over the country to different climbing areas and

Dennis Nelms:

destinations and worked around outdoor education in the summer

Dennis Nelms:

times where I the focus was climbing. But it was a lot of

Dennis Nelms:

backpacking and soul searching for kids. And then in the

Dennis Nelms:

wintertime I worked around the ski industry as a ski technician

Dennis Nelms:

working on skis because I grew up working on cars as a kid. And

Dennis Nelms:

that was kind of the beginning of my journey. Fast forward

Dennis Nelms:

three decades later. Here we are. Back in Arkansas. I had

Dennis Nelms:

worked with my dad on on development of of Adventure

Dennis Nelms:

Subaru and worked really hard on that. And then in 2013, I

Dennis Nelms:

decided I want to get back to climbing and spend more time on

Dennis Nelms:

that. So started looking at other business ventures that

Dennis Nelms:

would incorporate climbing and kind of stumbled across climbing

Dennis Nelms:

gyms I didn't do a lot of climbing in gyms, actually been

Dennis Nelms:

maybe half a dozen times before deciding that was where I was

Dennis Nelms:

going to spend some energy. And partnered with some guys out of

Dennis Nelms:

Nashville and we built Climb Bentonville. And in that I've

Dennis Nelms:

since kind of stepped back and I'm not involved in operations,

Dennis Nelms:

and still kind of twiddling my thumbs thinking what am I gonna

Dennis Nelms:

do next. And then mer met the guys at Ropeswing in the

Dennis Nelms:

process. Got got to really know Gary Vernon. And he kept asking

Dennis Nelms:

me questions about climbing. And so I was like, look, just,

Dennis Nelms:

let's, let's just start doing this consulting and I'll help

Dennis Nelms:

you kind of formulate a plan. And so over the last three years

Dennis Nelms:

I've been working pretty, pretty much full time on, you know, the

Dennis Nelms:

strategy for accessibility for climbing in the state and what

Dennis Nelms:

does that really look like? You know, what we're trying to

Dennis Nelms:

achieve is make this the most accessible, accessible and

Dennis Nelms:

easiest place to learn to climbing in this in the country.

Dennis Nelms:

You know, when you look at climbing areas across country,

Dennis Nelms:

there's the Yosemite valleys and the Grand Tetons and these

Dennis Nelms:

amazing iconic places. Arkansas is never going to be that but

Dennis Nelms:

what they what we do have is a massive amount of moderate or

Dennis Nelms:

easier to middle easy climbing compared to most places in the

Dennis Nelms:

country. So we've kind of brought it down to the idea that

Dennis Nelms:

we're really going to focus on what we have as an asset and

Dennis Nelms:

we're going to spend our time promoting that and going forward

Brent Williams:

Well, Dennis as a as a native Arkansan, you

Brent Williams:

with that.

Brent Williams:

know, having grown up here and spent the majority of my life

Brent Williams:

here you know, I've I've always thought you know, what an

Brent Williams:

amazing set of assets this state has in the outdoors, you know,

Brent Williams:

and, and you go across the state and you know, Northwest Arkansas

Brent Williams:

is beautiful, the, the delta is beautiful in a different way,

Brent Williams:

you know, and and then you go to South Arkansas and yet in

Brent Williams:

another way. So there's this diversity. But what's what I

Brent Williams:

think is really cool is how as a state we're really kind of

Brent Williams:

embracing outdoor recreation and growing that economy. And across

Brent Williams:

the state, I just kind of wondered like, you know, how do

Brent Williams:

you see that? What are you seeing happening throughout the state?

Dennis Nelms:

Well, I think for me to really understand and

Dennis Nelms:

appreciate how much we really had, I did need to leave and go

Dennis Nelms:

to these most these amazing and iconic places. I mean, I was

Dennis Nelms:

backpacking in Sequoia and Kings Canyon with kids, or spending my

Dennis Nelms:

time climbing walls in Yosemite, or or going up and climbing

Dennis Nelms:

Mount Rainier in Washington, and they are all so amazing. But I,

Dennis Nelms:

I kept coming back to how amazing Arkansas is and nobody

Dennis Nelms:

knows it. I mean, I would get questions like, oh, you know how

Dennis Nelms:

to tie your shoes? You're from Arkansas Oh. You mean you can

Dennis Nelms:

you can read? You know, which I barely can. But it's like,

Dennis Nelms:

people really underestimate what we have here. And to your point,

Dennis Nelms:

you look at the Delta, my wife's from Dumas, Southeast Arkansas,

Dennis Nelms:

and I never spent any time down there. But the beauty there is

Dennis Nelms:

phenomenal. Just those, those big Cottonwood bottoms and just

Dennis Nelms:

amazing terrain. And then you come up here and it's just

Dennis Nelms:

these, the relief when you go into the Buffalo area is 1000

Dennis Nelms:

feet. And that's big. And that's I mean, it's really big compared

Dennis Nelms:

to a lot of places. And those, the terrain there is just

Dennis Nelms:

incredibly rugged. And there's so much diversity in these these

Dennis Nelms:

different areas. And then you go to the Ouachitas and they're

Dennis Nelms:

proper mountains. I was just climbing down there about three

Dennis Nelms:

months ago, and it felt like I was in the Sierras. And I just,

Dennis Nelms:

I never realized what we had before I left. And then when I

Dennis Nelms:

came back, I was like, oh my gosh, there's just so much here.

Dennis Nelms:

And we were just tipping into it and and what has been done with

Dennis Nelms:

the cycling, it's just like opened the door. And I think

Dennis Nelms:

that there's when you look at the diversity of the terrain and

Dennis Nelms:

the people that are coming here, it's just, it's just blowing up

Dennis Nelms:

in a lot of ways and it's just now starting.

Brent Williams:

You know, as I was telling you earlier, you

Brent Williams:

know, when I've had a chance to talk with Gary Vernon, I felt

Brent Williams:

very comfortable because, you know, I love to ride bicycles.

Brent Williams:

And I don't probably wouldn't have had I not been living here,

Brent Williams:

but amazing accessibility, to be able to ride a bicycle, whether

Brent Williams:

that's on the Razorback Greenway, or a world class

Brent Williams:

mountain biking trail, I don't have any experience as a

Brent Williams:

climber. And so I guess a key part of the strategy of what you

Brent Williams:

said that that was interesting to me is that you're really

Brent Williams:

trying to focus on you know, I guess the ability for someone to

Brent Williams:

get started into and easier to moderate climbs if I heard that

Brent Williams:

correctly.

Dennis Nelms:

And in there's been a huge uptick since the,

Dennis Nelms:

over the last decade, with climbing gyms becoming more and

Dennis Nelms:

more prevalent, the accessibility of climbing is, is

Dennis Nelms:

increasing more and more. And when you look at the central US,

Dennis Nelms:

and you look at what climbing availability there is, if you go

Dennis Nelms:

from Chicago to Houston, and then out to Oklahoma City, and

Dennis Nelms:

over to Memphis say 85% of the climate in that whole area is

Dennis Nelms:

here in the Ozarks. It is a huge density of really good high

Dennis Nelms:

quality rock. And so as those gyms pop up in those different

Dennis Nelms:

Metro flexes and regions, people start getting more and more

Dennis Nelms:

curious. And so the availability of what does that really mean

Dennis Nelms:

accessibility? And I've really been thinking a lot about that

Dennis Nelms:

it's accessible to culture, you know, the different cultures, is

Dennis Nelms:

it accessible to just general population? What does that

Dennis Nelms:

really look like? And how do you learn? I mean, you go to a

Dennis Nelms:

YouTube video and trust your life with it. I mean, that's a

Dennis Nelms:

little scary. And then you go to a gym and, you know, the gyms

Dennis Nelms:

are about the environment inside those walls. And so part of this

Dennis Nelms:

is about how do we transition people from those gyms to more

Dennis Nelms:

outdoor climbing and and the adventurous side of climbing.

Dennis Nelms:

You know, rightly so, if you're new to climbing and you have no

Dennis Nelms:

one to show you what's what to do. It can be very dangerous.

Dennis Nelms:

There's that's the reality of it. But with some education with

Dennis Nelms:

some understanding, it becomes very safe. In fact, I would

Dennis Nelms:

argue, I've been hurt more on mountain bikes than I have

Dennis Nelms:

climbing in three decades.

Brent Williams:

Well maybe I might kind of build off of that

Brent Williams:

point and ask you a question. You know, when you think about a

Brent Williams:

University of Arkansas student, so, you know, roughly 32,000,

Brent Williams:

you know, ish students on this campus, we in the Walton College

Brent Williams:

are going to have between eight and 9000, you know, at a given

Brent Williams:

time, and many have grown up here, many have not, you know,

Brent Williams:

the other parts of Arkansas, other states. And, you know, so

Brent Williams:

I think they're, they're an interesting audience here. Maybe

Brent Williams:

they haven't ever been climb, or they haven't grown up doing it.

Brent Williams:

What do you suggest is the like, alright, first step, is this?

Dennis Nelms:

Yeah, get your toes wet.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, exactly.

Dennis Nelms:

Start with the Rec Center. There's a bouldering

Dennis Nelms:

wall at the record center, and there is a climbing wall, at the

Dennis Nelms:

HPER, you know, go there, get a little bit of instruction from

Dennis Nelms:

them and get a sense of what it's like. It's not going to

Dennis Nelms:

speak to everyone. But those that it does speak to, they seem

Dennis Nelms:

to be very passionate about it.

Brent Williams:

Yeah.

Dennis Nelms:

So you know, that's a good place to start.

Dennis Nelms:

Then when you you know, if you feel that that itch, then it's

Dennis Nelms:

time to start looking at local gyms. Currently, there's about

Dennis Nelms:

three local gyms that you can start looking at and dabbling

Dennis Nelms:

into climbing. And then there's a plethora of, of resources out

Dennis Nelms:

there to kind of look for areas to climb. The big disconnect

Dennis Nelms:

right now is that mentor to mentorship. So when I started

Dennis Nelms:

climbing, there was probably for one really seasoned climber,

Dennis Nelms:

there were 10 other climbers that wanted to get that

Dennis Nelms:

mentorship. And it was an easy conversion, it wasn't so hard to

Dennis Nelms:

find those people. Today, it's like one in 150 and 200, who

Dennis Nelms:

knows, there's not a ton of old turds like me running around

Dennis Nelms:

that are, you know, excited about instruction. So it's,

Dennis Nelms:

it's, there is kind of this disconnect right now. But there

Dennis Nelms:

are a lot of organizations out there that you can get good

Dennis Nelms:

information from NOLS is where I went National Outdoor Leadership

Dennis Nelms:

School, they're based out of Lander, Wyoming, American Alpine

Dennis Nelms:

Club, another great organization, the access fund,

Dennis Nelms:

these are that's a conservation. They, they preserve for debt

Dennis Nelms:

climbing for, for climbers getting involved in and then

Dennis Nelms:

locally, there's a great organization called the Arkansas

Dennis Nelms:

climbers coalition,

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Dennis Nelms:

And this is made up of climbers, it's all

Dennis Nelms:

volunteer, they do. They go out and they work on trying to make

Dennis Nelms:

sure things are safe for climbers, they rebolt old

Dennis Nelms:

equipment that's, that's out there, and they try to update

Dennis Nelms:

it. And so there's a lot of education involved in that. They

Dennis Nelms:

put on a huge thing every spring, Arkansas Climbers

Dennis Nelms:

Festival, and that's another incredible resources for people

Dennis Nelms:

to learn how to do it.

Brent Williams:

Interesting. Well, I get this question comes

Brent Williams:

to mind. You know, I mean, of course, I've known climbing

Brent Williams:

existed. And like I said, I haven't really haven't really

Brent Williams:

done it. But the movie free solo or the documentary free solo

Brent Williams:

came out. Right. And that's been a few years ago. I assume that

Brent Williams:

is that a wonder if it's a blessing or a curse to climbing?

Dennis Nelms:

It's a blessing in a lot of ways. Yeah. Now, I will

Dennis Nelms:

tell you I know Alex,

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Dennis Nelms:

I've met him before and we've actually

Dennis Nelms:

climbed together. He is a very calculated, smart individual.

Dennis Nelms:

They make him out as this kind of quirky dude, he's not

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Dennis Nelms:

He's, he's, he very much knows what he's doing

Dennis Nelms:

when he does it. And, you know, it was an incredible feat what

Dennis Nelms:

he did, and before him, Kevin Jorgensen and Tommy Caldwell

Dennis Nelms:

doing the Dawn Wall, there was a seven year endeavor for them to

Dennis Nelms:

do that, that route. And those things kind of perpetuate

Dennis Nelms:

climbing to the front line. Whereas it's always been on the

Dennis Nelms:

fringe. But, you know, that kind of climbing is, is on the upper

Dennis Nelms:

upper upper upper end.

Dennis Nelms:

And, you know, so it's not the everyday

Brent Williams:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

experience. You know, the everyday experience is, you and

Brent Williams:

me going out and I lead up and set up the ropes and you go up

Brent Williams:

and you're comfortably there. And if you fall you just stop

Brent Williams:

and nothing happens. You give it a second, then you get your

Brent Williams:

hands back on and keep keep climbing. And the equipment that

Brent Williams:

we use is incredibly redundant. It's like the the amount of

Brent Williams:

force it takes to break the equipment is about 10 times what

Brent Williams:

the body could withstand.

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Dennis Nelms:

So it's not going to give, it's only human error.

Dennis Nelms:

And that goes back to the education piece. Where you find

Dennis Nelms:

that mentor? What how do you get educated to do this? So, yeah

Brent Williams:

Well, I know that I knew that I had to at

Brent Williams:

least have create a increased interest. Uh, you know, over

Brent Williams:

time

Dennis Nelms:

It did. The accident numbers haven't

Dennis Nelms:

changed. You know, the, the amount of people coming to the

Dennis Nelms:

sport has not, like ticked up dramatically, it already is

Dennis Nelms:

going 10 fold every year. Well, 10%, over year over year, okay,

Dennis Nelms:

for the last decade. You know, I think it did spark that, like

Dennis Nelms:

that adventurous side and climbers. Yeah, and get them

Dennis Nelms:

kind of excited about what's new. And what's exciting in

Dennis Nelms:

climbing.

Brent Williams:

Well, let's maybe talk about climbing and

Brent Williams:

how it relates to the economy. So, you know, I would say, when

Brent Williams:

I think about the connection between outdoor recreation, our

Brent Williams:

economy, I guess I think about it in a couple of ways, we'd

Brent Williams:

love to get your thoughts, and I'm sure you're thinking about

Brent Williams:

it. Even more in depth, but but one, these experiences add

Brent Williams:

quality of life, or, you know, and as, as people choose to

Brent Williams:

found businesses, and grow their businesses here, and or relocate

Brent Williams:

their businesses here, I think this is an important part of the

Brent Williams:

economic development story of our state. And then I believe

Brent Williams:

that anytime, you know, you see, you see an industry start to pop

Brent Williams:

up. Well, now there's economic development around that

Brent Williams:

industry, the different businesses to support it. So how

Brent Williams:

are you thinking about that?

Dennis Nelms:

Well, I think as a business owner, and I look at,

Dennis Nelms:

like places that I would want to be and the places that I've

Dennis Nelms:

been, you know, we really have a good here. I mean, we, we really

Dennis Nelms:

have an amazing community. And then on top of that, all of a

Dennis Nelms:

sudden, we actually have better recreation than most places in

Dennis Nelms:

the country. And people are just not realizing it. Now, we as

Dennis Nelms:

native Arkansans, probably you already knew this, right? I

Dennis Nelms:

mean, I did. But I just knew that it had not been tapped into

Dennis Nelms:

like it is today. And so that narrative of you mean, you wear

Dennis Nelms:

shoes, or, you know, what's going on in Arkansas? Where is

Dennis Nelms:

that exactly That narrative is shifting. And so, you know, when

Dennis Nelms:

I look at living spaces for a business, if I think about what

Dennis Nelms:

is it that's really going to attract people to my business,

Dennis Nelms:

it's what we do in our, in our time, what we choose to do is

Dennis Nelms:

the most important time of our lives, we choose to go to work.

Dennis Nelms:

But we have to, we choose to drive a car, but we have to, we

Dennis Nelms:

choose to ride a bike, because we want to

Brent Williams:

Yeah,

Dennis Nelms:

We choose the fish, because that's our, that's

Dennis Nelms:

what really pushes us, we choose to climb because that is what

Dennis Nelms:

really gets us excited to live. And when you have a place that

Dennis Nelms:

gives you so many options like we have here, it's a no brainer.

Dennis Nelms:

I mean, if I want to recruit good quality staff, if I'm

Dennis Nelms:

looking to really perpetuate a good quality company, I know

Dennis Nelms:

that inevitably, it comes down to how happy those people really

Dennis Nelms:

are. And if they are live in a space, that gives them the

Dennis Nelms:

opportunity to have happiness, you're gonna hit a homerun, you

Dennis Nelms:

know.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, I mean, it's a key part of the value

Brent Williams:

proposition of living in this state. And I think why people

Brent Williams:

are seeing this state as a place that they want to move to, and

Brent Williams:

that clearly has been the case, it was the case pre pandemic,

Brent Williams:

but that certainly accelerated to some degree and it's, as you

Brent Williams:

know, still growing

Dennis Nelms:

You I'm a great example of it. I was an Arkansan

Dennis Nelms:

that was just like, you know, I got what I got, but I'm gonna go

Dennis Nelms:

really see the big world. And I went and did it. And I lived in

Dennis Nelms:

some most some of the most iconic places in the country

Dennis Nelms:

lives in Santa Cruz, California and jet and Jackson Hole,

Dennis Nelms:

Wyoming, and Portland, Oregon. You know, these places are

Dennis Nelms:

amazing in their own right. But every place I went, I was like,

Dennis Nelms:

yeah, it's not as good as just like, it's cool. You know, it's

Dennis Nelms:

amazing in its own way, but it's like when you try to put the

Dennis Nelms:

whole package together when I think about when I thought about

Dennis Nelms:

raising a family. I immediately thought about coming back here

Dennis Nelms:

is just the this how much we have here. It's all there, it's

Dennis Nelms:

just not really seen as much as those other places. And it kind

Dennis Nelms:

of goes back to what we have, you know, as far as like the

Dennis Nelms:

terrain and things like that it can be the capital of the world

Dennis Nelms:

in a lot of ways. But it can also be the best place to grow.

Dennis Nelms:

And to have growth as an individual, in a lot of ways,

Dennis Nelms:

too.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, it's just a wonderful place to grow a

Brent Williams:

business. And, you know, as you think about what opportunities

Brent Williams:

you see around climbing, coming, you know, over the next, and I

Brent Williams:

don't know how far you're thinking out three 5, 10 years,

Brent Williams:

you know, but how do you see that economy specifically around

Brent Williams:

climbing, needing to develop maybe is the right question?

Dennis Nelms:

Yeah, well, I think that as businesses

Dennis Nelms:

continue to develop, you know, and as employees age over time,

Dennis Nelms:

you know, you're not going to always be able to push yourself

Dennis Nelms:

to the hardest levels, especially into my age. You

Dennis Nelms:

know, it's more the accessibility of those things.

Dennis Nelms:

And, you know, when you start looking at, I can see me climb

Dennis Nelms:

till I'm 90, it just as long as I don't fall off my bike.

Brent Williams:

Not fall off the side of a mountain, I see.

Dennis Nelms:

You know, I can see that here. Yeah, it's not,

Dennis Nelms:

it's not out of the realm. And so that accessibility here is

Dennis Nelms:

just like, I mean, I got climbing 10 minutes outdoors,

Dennis Nelms:

ten minutes from my house. And there's not a lot of places in

Dennis Nelms:

the country, you can do that.

Brent Williams:

You know, when I, when I talked with Gary, that

Brent Williams:

was a key learning about the cycling strategy, in in our

Brent Williams:

state was having it in about accessibility, but proximity to

Brent Williams:

where people live. And so you see that same thing in climbing?

Dennis Nelms:

Well, Gary's a really smart dude. And, you

Dennis Nelms:

know, it really he keyed me into this very early on is like,

Dennis Nelms:

realizing how important that is, that is really turning

Dennis Nelms:

development of climbing on its head. Because what it's always

Dennis Nelms:

been is go out and do your hard project, like the Dawn Wall,

Dennis Nelms:

and, you know, or we're, you know, you go to that project,

Dennis Nelms:

and you do it well, what we're doing here is we're we're taking

Dennis Nelms:

the cues from the cycling and saying, no, we're going to

Dennis Nelms:

develop the local areas first. And then you, then you get

Dennis Nelms:

interested in your projects. And so we're really turning it

Dennis Nelms:

upside down in the climbing community. And it's really, you

Dennis Nelms:

know, when, when, when Gary and all those guys started working

Dennis Nelms:

on this, people were like, this isn't gonna work. This is, this

Dennis Nelms:

is crazy. Now they're coming here going, how did you do this?

Dennis Nelms:

We want to do it. You know, and I, I foresee, this being the

Dennis Nelms:

conduit for shockwaves, across the climate community across the

Dennis Nelms:

country, the way we're approaching this, this overall

Dennis Nelms:

strategy for the state. You know, it's just really different

Dennis Nelms:

the way it's ever been approached.

Brent Williams:

And do you see, you know, for the different

Brent Williams:

areas of focus in Northwest Arkansas, and Arkansas, more

Brent Williams:

broadly, around cycling, and climbing and paddling? I assume

Brent Williams:

you're seeing synergies across those different ones,

Brent Williams:

particularly from a tourism standpoint?

Dennis Nelms:

That's right. And I think the big takeaway there

Dennis Nelms:

is, the big takeaway for me is, take the assets that you have

Dennis Nelms:

and look at those things and how can you maximize them here in

Dennis Nelms:

Arkansas, and draw from that? If you've got a rock outcropping

Dennis Nelms:

close to your downtown center, focus on that, if you've got a

Dennis Nelms:

river or stream, focus on that, if you've got these amazing

Dennis Nelms:

deltas, focus on that, but really look at the natural

Dennis Nelms:

resources and figure out how to promote those things. Because

Dennis Nelms:

right now, you go down in areas and those are kind of in the

Dennis Nelms:

ditches. But the reality is, that's the gold for these

Dennis Nelms:

communities. That's where they can really revitalize these

Dennis Nelms:

these rural areas that are they're losing every day.

Brent Williams:

But that is a natural asset that really can be

Brent Williams:

leveraged in a strong way. I agree with you.

Dennis Nelms:

That is your gold. To me, it's like that's exactly

Dennis Nelms:

what we're doing with the cycling. We are taking the

Dennis Nelms:

terrain and turning it into gold. I mean, Bella Vista is a

Dennis Nelms:

great example. I mean, that terrain has been sitting there

Dennis Nelms:

for eons and no one knew what to do with it. And all they had to

Dennis Nelms:

do was say yes, and now they got 80 miles a trail that is

Dennis Nelms:

phenomenal.

Brent Williams:

Phenomenal trails. That's exactly right.

Brent Williams:

Well, as you sort of look back at your journey, I'm interested

Brent Williams:

in some of your learnings, and particularly maybe, you know,

Brent Williams:

you were a U of A student that at one time, so if you were, if

Brent Williams:

you were looking back and you know, getting one to pursue this

Brent Williams:

passion of climbing, and I know, you know, you spent many years

Brent Williams:

working in the automotive industry and your family's

Brent Williams:

business that was very customer service focused, just you know,

Brent Williams:

you're kind of talking to that student what's, what's some key

Brent Williams:

learnings and advice?

Dennis Nelms:

I think, you know, doing the work, you know, being

Dennis Nelms:

willing to put the time in, but the only way to do that, and

Dennis Nelms:

this may sound cliche, but follow your passion, whatever

Dennis Nelms:

that is. My dad loved drag racing when he was 10 years old.

Dennis Nelms:

His dad was a mechanic. And so what did he do? He followed his

Dennis Nelms:

passion, became one of the most prominent car dealers in

Dennis Nelms:

Northwest Arkansas. He was the dealer of the year last year for

Dennis Nelms:

Subaru, you know, after almost five decades, in that business,

Dennis Nelms:

follow your passion. You know, and this is, it's hard to

Dennis Nelms:

separate that when you are struggling to make ends meet,

Dennis Nelms:

paying off those loans doing what you do, and you commit

Dennis Nelms:

yourself to something. But at the end of the day, if you

Dennis Nelms:

follow that passion, you're going to spend that extra mot

Dennis Nelms:

minute you're going to, you're going to wake up in the middle,

Dennis Nelms:

like that's the answer. That's it. Because it's in you. It's

Dennis Nelms:

no, it's not external to you.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, yeah. I love that notion of something

Brent Williams:

you said about one being present and working hard, I continue to

Brent Williams:

hear that, you know, in just about everybody I talked to,

Brent Williams:

like, just do great at what you're doing. Love it, you know,

Brent Williams:

and pursue what you really enjoy. And there's a lot of

Brent Williams:

passion, a lot, a lot of joy in that.

Dennis Nelms:

The only other thing I'd say there is there's

Dennis Nelms:

no job underneath anyone. And the reason I say that is because

Dennis Nelms:

I mean, at one point, I was picking food out of dumpsters to

Dennis Nelms:

make ends meet to go climb. That was my passion. And sometimes

Dennis Nelms:

you just have to pick up the mop and mop the floor no matter what

Dennis Nelms:

happens, because that's what has to happen. And I think that

Dennis Nelms:

there's a disconnect there with a lot of people, it's like, oh,

Dennis Nelms:

if I can't do that job, I'm not going to do a job, then that's

Dennis Nelms:

just not the way success works.

Brent Williams:

You know, I think I think that's a great

Brent Williams:

characteristic of many of the great leaders that we know, that

Brent Williams:

have always been willing to do to do any job, you know, and

Brent Williams:

whatever it takes to get that job done.

Dennis Nelms:

Well my dad when I was a kid, he told me this, he

Dennis Nelms:

probably didn't remember saying this. He's like, son, you can

Dennis Nelms:

run a business, taking care of the coffeemaker. You know, you,

Dennis Nelms:

you do the work, you put the time in, and you will figure out

Dennis Nelms:

how to make things work.

Brent Williams:

Well, Dennis, thank you for what you're doing

Brent Williams:

in our region and in our state to advance outdoor recreation

Brent Williams:

and the economy around it. Thanks for being willing to come

Brent Williams:

back and spend some time with us today.

Dennis Nelms:

Awesome. Yeah. It's great to be back at the

Dennis Nelms:

university.

Brent Williams:

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.

Dennis Nelms:

Thank you.

Brent Williams:

On behalf of the Walton College thank you for

Brent Williams:

joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected

Brent Williams:

and never miss an episode. Simply search for be epic on

Listen for free

Show artwork for Be EPIC Podcast

About the Podcast

Be EPIC Podcast
Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast featuring Brent Williams, interim dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. In each episode, you will hear from guests that will inspire you to be epic. As experts in their field, they will emphasize strategy, leadership, and entrepreneurship. This programming will highlight innovation and cutting-edge information that will leave you wanting more. Be sure to connect with Brent Williams on LinkedIn to join the conversation, access show notes and discover fantastic bonus content.