Finding Innovation and Entrepreneurship in the Medical Field with Jared Greer and Spencer Jones
This week on the podcast, Matt sits down with Jared Greer and Spencer Jones to discuss their entrepreneurial ventures in the medical space at Lapovations, Jared is the Co-Founder and CEO and Spencer is the Chief Technology Officer and VP of Sales at Lapovations. They begin with the story of how Lapovations came to be with a problem that needed to be solved for surgeons who perform laparoscopic procedures. Spencer also touches on his solution that he created at his previous company for IVs that led him into the healthcare entrepreneur space after working as a nurse. They then discuss how the Walton College, University of Arkansas and local entrepreneurial support organizations has impacted their company with a focus on customer discovery, validation of your product and pivoting to meet what your customer needs. Learn more about Lapovations: https://lapovations.com/
Transcript
If you're trying to be better at sales in general
Spencer Jones:but also medical sales, really investing in being a people
Spencer Jones:person and you know building relationships because your
Spencer Jones:relationship capital in most businesses, but especially sales
Spencer Jones:is paramount.
Matt Waller:Excellence, professionalism, innovation and
Matt Waller:collegiality. These are the values the Sam M. Walton College
Matt Waller:of Business explores in education, business and the
Matt Waller:lives of people we meet every day, I'm Matt Waller, Dean of
Matt Waller:the Walton College and welcome to the be epic podcast. I have
Matt Waller:with me today, Jared Greer and Spencer Jones. Jared is a
Matt Waller:successful entrepreneur with over 20 years of medical sales
Matt Waller:experience. He's the co-founder and CEO of Lapovations, which
Matt Waller:we're going to be talking about today, which is really
Matt Waller:interesting. He has studied engineering. He also has a MBA
Matt Waller:from from the Walton College. He's been very engaged in
Matt Waller:entrepreneurship with the Walton College for many years. Spencer
Matt Waller:Jones is a clinical innovator with broad medical devices
Matt Waller:experience. And I actually did a recording a video interview with
Matt Waller:him about five years ago, about his business. Lineus medical,
Matt Waller:which was really interesting. It was particularly interesting for
Matt Waller:me at the time, because I had spent quite a bit of time in the
Matt Waller:hospital with IVs hooked up to me, and he told me about this
Matt Waller:invention he had that allowed for easier access to IV lines
Matt Waller:and IV line management. So, but, but now he is the chief
Matt Waller:technology or technology officer and VP of sales at Lapovations
Matt Waller:and you've been there for a couple years now. Is that right?
Spencer Jones:That's right. And I was part time consultant for
Spencer Jones:about two years and then have come come on board full time
Spencer Jones:just this month.
Matt Waller:Okay, that's great. Jared, I want to start with you.
Matt Waller:And of course, as I mentioned in the introduction, you have lots
Matt Waller:of experience. You worked for Pfizer for almost nine years, as
Matt Waller:a help in sales, I believe. You were owner of Northwest Arkansas
Matt Waller:TCBY, why for several years, makes me hungry, just thinking
Matt Waller:about that. I'm ready for some ice cream. And you were in sales
Matt Waller:for Medtronics for about 10 years. And you started
Matt Waller:Lapovations back over six years ago. Would you tell us and of
Matt Waller:course, I've followed both of your companies carefully for
Matt Waller:many years, and it's so fun to see these kinds of successes.
Matt Waller:It's really amazing. But I know it's been very difficult and
Matt Waller:challenging. So first of all, you know, Jared, how did you
Matt Waller:come up with the idea for Lapovations?
Jared Greer:Well Matt, to start with, I would just like to say
Jared Greer:thank you for taking time to speak with Spencer and I today
Jared Greer:about Lapovations and what we've done. You know, I listened to
Jared Greer:your, your podcast frequently. And it's a real honor to be
Jared Greer:here. So thank you very much for that. You know, as far as
Jared Greer:Lapovations goes, our story really starts. Back in early
Jared Greer:2016. There was a surgeon who I worked with very closely over
Jared Greer:the past two companies that I was with in medical sales. And
Jared Greer:he came to me with a problem that was driving him crazy in
Jared Greer:surgery in his laparoscopic surgeries. And just to take a
Jared Greer:step back, you know, laparoscopic surgery is
Jared Greer:minimally invasive surgery of the abdomen, you know, whereas
Jared Greer:25 or 30 years ago, they'd have to make a large incision, cut,
Jared Greer:you open completely visualize everything they were doing in
Jared Greer:the abdominal cavity. If you had a procedure, you know, now they
Jared Greer:go in through tiny incisions that are small enough to cover
Jared Greer:with a band aid and they can visualize what they're doing
Jared Greer:through small cameras called lapper scopes that are showing
Jared Greer:what's going on inside the abdominal cavity. And so this
Jared Greer:doctor is Dr. Chris Taylor. In Harrison, Arkansas. He's a
Jared Greer:gynecologist. Um, one of the things that was driving him nuts
Jared Greer:in the laparoscopic surgeries was at the very start of the
Jared Greer:procedure, before the doctor inserts their first instrument,
Jared Greer:they don't have visualization into that abdominal cavity. And
Jared Greer:so when they inserted the first instrument, it's, it's typically
Jared Greer:through the belly button, or umbilicus is the technical term
Jared Greer:for it. And the biggest risk with the procedure is that they
Jared Greer:will pierce the bowel or a vascular structure, you know,
Jared Greer:some sort of important structure that they can't see yet because
Jared Greer:they don't have a camera inside the abdominal wall. And so
Jared Greer:that's the biggest risk of the surgery is this initial
Jared Greer:insertion. And what surgeons typically do to minimize that
Jared Greer:risk is they will lift the abdominal wall either by hand to
Jared Greer:get away from those vital organs, or they will insert what
Jared Greer:are called perforating towel clips. And the best way I know
Jared Greer:to describe perforating towel clips is they look like a pair
Jared Greer:of scissors with really sharp points on the end that come
Jared Greer:together. And their intended use is to clip towels together, you
Jared Greer:know, in the surgical field there. But surgeons will
Jared Greer:actually insert those into the skin into the abdominal cavity,
Jared Greer:you know, into the abdominal wall on either side of the belly
Jared Greer:button to provide a handle by which to lift. And so, you know,
Jared Greer:the problem for Dr. Taylor was after you know, 20 to 25 years
Jared Greer:of practice and tissue manipulation, you know, he had
Jared Greer:some issues with his hands that made it where he could not lift
Jared Greer:the abdominal wall reliably by hand. And if you think about it
Jared Greer:with the obesity, you know, epi- epidemic that we're facing here
Jared Greer:in the United States, patients are larger, right, and so
Jared Greer:there's a lot more tissue to manipulate. But he didn't like
Jared Greer:the idea of using the towel clips, because the towel clips
Jared Greer:are invasive. And laparoscopy is intended to be a minimally
Jared Greer:invasive surgery. So, you know, he was left to choose between
Jared Greer:two options that were not great to lift the abdominal wall. And
Jared Greer:so what we've done at lapovations is we've developed
Jared Greer:AB grab, AB grab is a suction based device that lifts the
Jared Greer:abdominal wall more reliably than manual grasp, but less
Jared Greer:invasively than the towel clips. And so in 2016, he brought me
Jared Greer:the idea for that product. And we incorporated the business.
Jared Greer:And we made what many would probably view as a unique
Jared Greer:choice, in that I re enrolled at the University of Arkansas, to
Jared Greer:partner with, you know, the the, the researchers here, and
Jared Greer:specifically with the Walton College of Business, to help
Jared Greer:bring this company, you know, into existence. And we can
Jared Greer:discuss that a little bit more, as much in depth as you would
Jared Greer:like. But the Walton College has certainly played a major role in
Jared Greer:the success we've had at Lapovations.
Matt Waller:How did you come up with the idea for a company, a
Matt Waller:medical device company focused on IV access line management?
Spencer Jones:Yeah, so I was a nurse by training, went to
Spencer Jones:Eleanor Mann School of Nursing. And it didn't take long for me
Spencer Jones:being at the bedside to realize some or have some frustrations
Spencer Jones:and realize that the devices and supplies that we were using,
Spencer Jones:that nurses were using at the bedside, were, you know, really
Spencer Jones:commoditized, you know, poorly built, it seemed and I was
Spencer Jones:having, you know, similar to Dr. Taylor's experience and his
Spencer Jones:frustrations, I experienced the problem firsthand as a
Spencer Jones:clinician, and thought, you know, there's got to be a better
Spencer Jones:way to do this, you know, and chiefly, it was, you know, with
Spencer Jones:safe break, which is Lineus Medical's lead product, it was
Spencer Jones:patients losing their IV lines, you know, their IV catheters
Spencer Jones:would get pulled out, or there would be tension on the line,
Spencer Jones:and it would cause the IV to fail for a number of reasons.
Spencer Jones:But it seems like all of those failures were kind of mechanical
Spencer Jones:force derived, right? It was it was some tension on the IV line.
Spencer Jones:So that was kind of the you know, the idea came out of that
Spencer Jones:initial experience with the problem. And I thought, you
Spencer Jones:know, well, what if the line just intentionally separated?
Spencer Jones:And from there, kind of through a series of accelerator programs
Spencer Jones:and, you know, putting a lot of smart people around the we were
Spencer Jones:able to, you know, start and launch to kind of build that
Spencer Jones:company and ultimately get FDA clearance last year.
Matt Waller:Well, congratulations.
Spencer Jones:Thank you.
Matt Waller:In both cases, you all have been solving problems
Matt Waller:that existed. That's one commonality between your two
Matt Waller:companies. And, and again, I know Spencer that you're part of
Matt Waller:Lapovations now. But but and they're both in medical. In your
Matt Waller:case, Spencer, you saw the problem and became aware of it
Matt Waller:because of because you were a nurse. And I told you this, when
Matt Waller:I interviewed you for the video that time, I mean, I, I
Matt Waller:experienced the problems that you were solving. And I thought,
Matt Waller:wow, I wish they would have had that when I was in the hospital.
Matt Waller:I mean, and I also, you know, even even Jared the first time,
Matt Waller:he told me about what he was doing, I thought you can see,
Matt Waller:you know, after you have laparoscopic surgery on your
Matt Waller:abdomen, which I've had multiple times, you can see the results
Matt Waller:of the trauma that it looks like, the first time I had it
Matt Waller:happen, I thought, did they beat me in the stomach with a
Matt Waller:baseball bat? You know, it's what it looks like, because of
Matt Waller:all the bruising. And so I didn't know why it was so
Matt Waller:bruised until I heard your story Jared and Lapovation, I thought,
Matt Waller:well of course, if that's how they're pulling the skin up,
Matt Waller:yeah, it's gonna bruise it pretty bad. And it stays bruised
Matt Waller:for a long time it seems like and it looks funny. But so I
Matt Waller:would imagine, not only do surgeons benefit from from AB
Matt Waller:grab, but so do patients. And I'm wondering, have you all
Matt Waller:looked into that very much in terms of like the the effects on
Matt Waller:the patient?
Jared Greer:Yeah, we sure have. So you know, there is a
Jared Greer:physician benefit, as well as a patient benefit with our
Jared Greer:product. And you know, the physician benefits pretty easy
Jared Greer:to see in that, you know, if you have a more reliable way to lift
Jared Greer:the abdominal wall, it's going to make you feel better about
Jared Greer:the safety of the procedure that you're performing, it's actually
Jared Greer:going to be better ergonomically for the surgeon as well, which
Jared Greer:could, you know, lead to a longer and happier and healthier
Jared Greer:career. But from the patient point of view, there are clear
Jared Greer:benefits, you know, if that surgeon is able to have a more
Jared Greer:reliable lift, that reduces your risk of having one of those
Jared Greer:serious complications, right. And that's the that's the
Jared Greer:absolute last thing you want as a patient because those serious
Jared Greer:complications, they have high mortality rates, you know, a, a
Jared Greer:piercing of the bowel or the vascular structure, the
Jared Greer:mortality rates can be anywhere between five and 15%. Right? And
Jared Greer:so-
Matt Waller:They can go septic, right?
Jared Greer:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jared Greer:And it's not uncommon for the surgeon to not recognize that
Jared Greer:there was one of those complications during the
Jared Greer:surgery, right? It's not, it's not uncommon for it, not to be
Jared Greer:recognized. And so until several days later-
Matt Waller:But the patient knows, because when they go
Matt Waller:home. And this actually happened to me. You know, I thought, as
Matt Waller:soon as I came out of surgery, they said, the more you walk,
Matt Waller:the faster you'll recover and the less narcotics use, the
Matt Waller:faster you'll recover. So I went on this ibuprofen and
Matt Waller:acetaminophen, alternating them like this. They said, so as soon
Matt Waller:as I woke up, I started walking, I had my IV thing I was walking
Matt Waller:on the floor, I was at Baylor Medical Center and I literally
Matt Waller:walked for six hours. Because they said you'll recover more
Matt Waller:quickly. I think it worked, you know. And so I went home, not
Matt Waller:home actually went to a relative's house in Plano. And
Matt Waller:again, I was walking every day. And a couple days later. I feel
Matt Waller:like I'm about to die. I was sweating profusely. I took- I
Matt Waller:couldn't walk. My wife had to drive me to the hospital. And
Matt Waller:they had to bring up a wheelchair. This is after having
Matt Waller:walked for miles and miles. And thinking I called my admin
Matt Waller:because I I said oh, I'm gonna be gone for at least a week. I
Matt Waller:called her the next day said I'll probably be home a couple
Matt Waller:days and back at work. Little did I know I had a month ahead
Matt Waller:of me and it was because of this problem.
Jared Greer:Yep.
Matt Waller:Once you once that stuff starts leaking in you,
Matt Waller:it's bad. It was worse than the original problem I had in the
Matt Waller:first place. So what a great solution.
Jared Greer:Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, that's the serious
Jared Greer:side of things, you know, and and Spencer can maybe validate
Jared Greer:this, this number here, but it's around 50% of the serious
Jared Greer:complications associated with laparoscopic surgery are around
Jared Greer:this initial entry into the little cavity. And, and so
Jared Greer:obviously, it can be very serious, you know, we're, we're
Jared Greer:both very grateful, Matt, that you were able to overcome that
Jared Greer:and get past it. However, you know, if you could have a two or
Jared Greer:three day recovery versus that one month recovery that you
Jared Greer:ended up having, of course, there's a huge benefit there.
Jared Greer:And, you know, you mentioned something earlier about coming
Jared Greer:out of that surgery and having all the bruises on the abdominal
Jared Greer:area and thinking you'd you've maybe been beat up with a
Jared Greer:baseball bat, while you're under. You know, a lot of that
Jared Greer:comes from the use of invasive towel clips. And so you know,
Jared Greer:it's it's not uncommon, the invasive towel clips, when
Jared Greer:they're, they're inserting those into the abdominal wall to lift.
Jared Greer:And so it's not uncommon for us to hear from surgeons that they
Jared Greer:get more complaints from patients regarding the towel
Jared Greer:clip, puncture wounds than they do regarding the surgical
Jared Greer:incisions themselves.
Matt Waller:I believe it.
Jared Greer:Yeah, so having having a, a non invasive suction
Jared Greer:based device, like AB grab is a is a real benefit to those
Spencer Jones:Yeah, and I'll just add on real, real quickly,
Spencer Jones:you know, we talked about the benefits benefits to the patient
Spencer Jones:and the benefits to the surgeon. But there's also a real benefit
Spencer Jones:to the hospital kind of as a whole or even the Ambulatory
Spencer Jones:Surgical Center, you know, if one of these vascular injuries
Spencer Jones:or bowel perforations occur, and it requires an additional
Spencer Jones:surgery, right, or an additional days of lengths of stay, you
Spencer Jones:know, that is a hospital acquired, you know, condition,
Spencer Jones:right. And so the patient's not on the hook for that, the
Spencer Jones:patients.
Spencer Jones:hospitals on the hook for that. So, you know, when that occurs,
Spencer Jones:there's a real financial impact to the hospital as well. So
Spencer Jones:avoiding that obviously has a huge benefit.
Matt Waller:You know, and Spencer, your experience as a
Matt Waller:nurse, and anyone who's been in a hospital for a serious length
Matt Waller:of time, knows the value of good nurses and nurses see the really
Matt Waller:nitty gritty issues associated with different kinds of
Matt Waller:procedures, failures to do certain things, et cetera, et
Matt Waller:cetera. What a great training ground for entrepreneurs that
Matt Waller:want to go into medicine. Because you see so many
Matt Waller:problems. Is that right?
Spencer Jones:It's absolutely right. I mean, nurses are, you
Spencer Jones:know, really astute problem solvers. You know, when you're
Spencer Jones:given your patient load, you're kind of out there on an island
Spencer Jones:caring for them, you know, obviously, you've got some care-
Spencer Jones:care staff and the physicians around but, you know, nurses are
Spencer Jones:problem solvers. They're hard workers, you have to adapt,
Spencer Jones:adapt quickly, you know, assess and adapt very quickly, which is
Spencer Jones:a really great skill to have as an entrepreneur. You know,
Spencer Jones:there's actually it's funny, you say that there's actually I
Spencer Jones:think it's the University of- UPenn there's a nursing
Spencer Jones:instructor who teaches a design, it's a design thinking in
Spencer Jones:healthcare type class, because she recognized how valuable of a
Spencer Jones:kind of a training ground like you said, nursing is for
Spencer Jones:entrepreneurs and innovation. And, and you're absolutely
Spencer Jones:right, you know, it's it's tough because there's, there's so much
Spencer Jones:to do as nurses, we're constantly getting put, you
Spencer Jones:know, more and more patient loads. And, you know, think
Spencer Jones:about all these awesome innovations and devices and
Spencer Jones:medicines that are coming out, the nurses have to keep up and
Spencer Jones:you know, how to use all of them, right and know what the
Spencer Jones:drug to drug interactions are, and the dosing and all that
Spencer Jones:stuff. So, it's hard for nurses a lot of the times to kind of
Spencer Jones:get themselves out of that, you know, I call it, you know, not
Spencer Jones:meeting this disparagingly, acting like ants, right? They've
Spencer Jones:got a mission, they're working their heads down, everyone's
Spencer Jones:working together, it's hard for them to kind of get out of that
Spencer Jones:and almost work like a hive mind, right, like, you know, a
Spencer Jones:hive mind and see the big picture and think about
Spencer Jones:impacting those problems. And, you know, frankly, too nursing
Spencer Jones:is a very straight line track in terms of formal education,
Spencer Jones:right? It's very difficult to take business classes to take a
Spencer Jones:finance or econ or engineering classes when you're on that
Spencer Jones:nursing track, so you don't get exposure to it. But you know,
Spencer Jones:look, I was lucky enough to when I was down in Little Rock, have
Spencer Jones:some great mentorship and kind of business mentors through the
Spencer Jones:accelerator programs I did that, you know, allowed me to kind of
Spencer Jones:say, you know what, the here's a problem. We can create a
Spencer Jones:solution and then here's the path forward to commercialize
Spencer Jones:it.
Matt Waller:So Spencer, you may not know this, but what do you
Matt Waller:part of this you know, and I'm sure Jared knows this. We, the
Matt Waller:Walton College a couple of years ago started a new academic
Matt Waller:department, something that doesn't happen very much. And we
Matt Waller:started, it's our eighth academic department. And it's
Matt Waller:called the Department of strategy, entrepreneurship and
Matt Waller:venture innovation. I, we just felt like, hey, entrepreneurship
Matt Waller:is in our mission statement. We need to put more focus on it. So
Matt Waller:we created a whole new department. But one of the
Matt Waller:people we hired to teach in it is Cara Osborne. Do either of
Matt Waller:you know, Cara?
Matt Waller:So so for those of you don't know, Cara, was a
Spencer Jones:Yes.
Spencer Jones:professor in nursing here at the U of A, so I hired a nursing
Spencer Jones:professor to come to the business school. And now, she
Spencer Jones:has created two and exited a couple of businesses that were
Spencer Jones:successful, right. So she knew the business well, she, she, she
Spencer Jones:started businesses, and sold them she she know, she knew the
Spencer Jones:business side, she actually started a whiskey business, a
Spencer Jones:bourbon busin- business in Kentucky too, she's still here,
Spencer Jones:but she did that just recently. And but I thought, what a great
Spencer Jones:her I think her Ph, she's a nurse, but she also has a PhD.
Spencer Jones:And I believe it's in epidemiology, I can't remember
Spencer Jones:something like that. And but I thought, what a great way,
Spencer Jones:right, in a entrepreneurship department, to bring in someone
Spencer Jones:with some sort of, because a domain expertise, like medicine,
Spencer Jones:because, as you know, Northwest Arkansas is developing a
Spencer Jones:competency around Whole Health. And, I mean, it's just
Spencer Jones:incredible, because we have the Whole Health Institute, the
Spencer Jones:Alice Walton Whole Health School of Medicine. Cleveland Clinic is
Spencer Jones:coming here in a big way. And other things are happening as
Spencer Jones:well. UAMS is increasing involvement here. There's a lot
Spencer Jones:of things going on in healthcare. And there's more
Spencer Jones:startups here early or not just startups, but early stage
Spencer Jones:companies here. Hopefully, we're creating a cluster of expertise
Spencer Jones:here and you two, I think are key to that. But, Jared, one
Spencer Jones:thing I wanted to ask you about you, you came up with this idea.
Spencer Jones:But it took a while to really get something that had product
Spencer Jones:market fit. Would you mind talking a little bit about that?
Jared Greer:Absolutely. And that's a probably a crucial part
Jared Greer:of any startup, right? You come up with an initial idea, you
Jared Greer:think you're solving the problem. And then it's
Jared Greer:incredibly important to get out and speak to customers or users
Jared Greer:and confirm that, hey, number one, I'm solving the right
Jared Greer:problem, right? The problem there to solve. And then number
Jared Greer:two, what I've come up with, actually solves that problem.
Jared Greer:And so our initial thoughts for AB grab, was that we wanted to
Jared Greer:create a device that a hand suction device, and what I mean
Jared Greer:by that is, you know, it's got a little hand pump to where the
Jared Greer:the user, the surgeon or the scrub tech and create their own
Jared Greer:vacuum, if you will, to be able to make this device work. And
Jared Greer:what we found is as as we went down that path, we found that
Jared Greer:number one, it was pretty complex and expensive to develop
Jared Greer:a product that could create suction by hand. And one of the
Jared Greer:reasons we originally thought that was the way to go is you
Jared Greer:know, because there is suction available in all operating
Jared Greer:rooms, wall suction or portable suction. But we didn't think the
Jared Greer:surgeons and the scrub techs would want any additional
Jared Greer:suction tubing, you know, coming through the medical field or the
Jared Greer:sterile field and, you know, cluttering up the mayo Stan and
Jared Greer:cluttering up their work area. But as we got into the process
Jared Greer:of developing that first generation AB grad, and
Jared Greer:prototyping it, we found that when we went back to our users,
Jared Greer:our surgeons and our scrub techs with that product, that some of
Jared Greer:our assumptions, some of our original assumptions were not
Jared Greer:correct. And the number one user need was reliability. And the
Jared Greer:most reliable section was was not going to be created by a
Jared Greer:hand suction device, but it would be created by a wall or
Jared Greer:portable suction device. And a benefit on the back end of that
Jared Greer:is that we were able to create a much simpler design, less
Jared Greer:expensive to manufacture, easier for the surgeons to use. And we
Jared Greer:made a pretty major pivot, you know, several years into the
Jared Greer:company and moving from that hand suction device to the wall
Jared Greer:suction device. And the that's the version of AB grab that we
Jared Greer:are actually launching nationally this month. So it's a
Jared Greer:you know, and we wouldn't have had the, you know, the
Jared Greer:opportunity to do that if we hadn't been doing that customer
Jared Greer:validation work. And, you know, just to kind of bring the bring
Jared Greer:the story back around to the Walton College of Business and
Jared Greer:the role that the Walton College has played. You know, during
Jared Greer:those initial few years, I was re enrolled at the University of
Jared Greer:Arkansas, I was actually a master's in biomedical
Jared Greer:engineering student over at the the engineering college. But I
Jared Greer:was in Dr. Carol Reeves' New Venture Development class,
Jared Greer:right, because I knew that we wanted to leverage the business
Jared Greer:plan competitions and the learnings that we could, we
Jared Greer:could gather in Dr. Reeves' as class as we built the business.
Jared Greer:And so a big focus at that time, as I'm sure it still is, is
Jared Greer:customer validation. And so we did a lot of customer val-
Jared Greer:validation work in her class, in partnership with some of the,
Jared Greer:you know, entrepreneurial support organizations here in
Jared Greer:Northwest Arkansas. The Delta I fund was well, at that time, one
Jared Greer:of the organizations that we were working with startup
Jared Greer:junkie, innovate Arkansas, you know, we've got such wonderful
Jared Greer:support organizations to help young companies like that, but
Jared Greer:they really focused us on that customer validation side of
Jared Greer:things. And that allowed us to pivot into what we think is
Jared Greer:going to become the gold standard for abdominal wall
Jared Greer:lifting at the start of laparoscopic surgery.
Matt Waller:Well, you know, your point about importance of
Matt Waller:customer discovery can't be under emphasized. It's it really
Matt Waller:makes all the difference in the world. I think that's one of the
Matt Waller:reasons why there were so many failures from the .com, boom,
Matt Waller:companies were getting funding too early. They were scaling
Matt Waller:before they had product market fit and a good business model.
Matt Waller:Spencer, you had the same thing. You you had to do a lot of
Matt Waller:pivoting early. Is that right?
Spencer Jones:Yeah, we, you know, gosh we went through, I
Spencer Jones:don't know how many designs for safe break and kind of had to,
Spencer Jones:you know, it took a long time to get to the eventual design that
Spencer Jones:we got FDA clearance with. But I remember at first there was a
Spencer Jones:stem in it, and then next there was, you know, some frangible
Spencer Jones:stem and different things like that. But I think part part of
Spencer Jones:the iteration and the pivot, you know, I'll call it more of an
Spencer Jones:iteration than a pivot that we did was was, you know, I think
Spencer Jones:there was normal iterations and kind of product development
Spencer Jones:stuff that we had to do. But then the problem that we were
Spencer Jones:solving ended up evolving based on the customer discovery that
Spencer Jones:we were doing, you know, and because we originally thought,
Spencer Jones:oh, this product is going to be for dislodgement, right? We're
Spencer Jones:going to prevent people from pulling out their IVs. But then
Spencer Jones:the more and more, we got into it, and did research, and then,
Spencer Jones:you know, spoke with customers and things like that we
Spencer Jones:realized, you know, infiltration and phlebitis, those are larger
Spencer Jones:problems, and also problems that are derived from, you know,
Spencer Jones:mechanical force on the line. And so we kind of shifted our
Spencer Jones:focus and obviously, when you can expand the problem that
Spencer Jones:you're solving with the same product, that's a win win for
Spencer Jones:everybody. Right. So and sure enough, when we did our, you
Spencer Jones:know, pivotal study, it was a 300 patient randomized
Spencer Jones:controlled trial. The we had huge reductions in both
Spencer Jones:phlebitis and infiltration as well as dislodgement. Right. So
Spencer Jones:it was just really crucial that we identified, you know, kind of
Spencer Jones:and expanded on that problem through customer discovery and
Spencer Jones:through research. But that was huge for us. Yeah.
Matt Waller:Well, one of the things I wanted to pick up on
Matt Waller:what you said, Jared, about the entrepreneurial support
Matt Waller:organizations, and you mentioned a couple I think you mentioned I
Matt Waller:can't remember startup junkie was one of them. But there are a
Matt Waller:lot here, you know, we've got endeavor. We've got plug and
Matt Waller:play. We've got startup junkie, innovate Arkansas. Of course
Matt Waller:here on campus, we have the office of entrepreneurship and
Matt Waller:innovation, technology ventures, Arkansas, Small Business and
Matt Waller:Technology Development Center. And then we have a bunch of
Matt Waller:events, you know, case competition, startup
Matt Waller:competitions, like Heartland challenge, which is really good.
Matt Waller:The Northwest Arkansas Tech Summit, the Arkansas startup
Matt Waller:crawl, which is fun. NWA tech fest, TechStars, Startup
Matt Waller:Weekend, the blockchain hackathon and many, many, many
Matt Waller:others. It's kind of remarkable how much there is right now. And
Matt Waller:I in fact, I just earlier today I had in my office, Katherine
Matt Waller:Andrews, I don't know if you know, her, Katherine, she
Matt Waller:graduated here in 2013. And she's done a number of things.
Matt Waller:But right now she is the director of outdoor the office
Matt Waller:of outdoor recreation for the Arkansas Department of Parks and
Matt Waller:Tourism. But prior to that, for five years, she worked with the
Matt Waller:Arkansas economic Economic Development Commission, and she
Matt Waller:set up the small business and entrepreneurship development
Matt Waller:program. So she's been an entrepreneur within the state.
Matt Waller:But, but there are so many things going on right now. And I
Matt Waller:know Jared and Spencer, you both stay, I see you all at a lot of
Matt Waller:different events. So you're not just building your own business,
Matt Waller:I see you giving back and contributing to fuel I missed
Matt Waller:fuel fuel was an important one, too. I see you all giving back
Matt Waller:and helping other early stage companies succeed.
Jared Greer:So it's, it's so we're so blessed, Matt, I think
Jared Greer:to have all of these support organizations here in Northwest
Jared Greer:Arkansas. And I cannot underestimate the importance
Jared Greer:that these organizations have played in the development of our
Jared Greer:company. You know, and I even go back to the very, very
Jared Greer:beginning, because a lot of these programs that are here
Jared Greer:today started from work that was being done in the Walton College
Jared Greer:of Business by Dr. Carol Reeves, right. You know, for a long
Jared Greer:time, she was kind of holding, you know, the torch for
Jared Greer:entrepreneurship high all by herself.
Matt Waller:She was a voice crying out in the wilderness
Jared Greer:She was light in the darkness. That's exactly
Jared Greer:what she was. And, you know, my first interaction with her and
Jared Greer:her program actually came back in 2008, 2009, when I was
Jared Greer:getting my MBA at the Walton College of Business. And that
Jared Greer:was the first time I went through the New Venture
Jared Greer:Development Program. It was with a company that I co-founded
Jared Greer:called tears for life. And, you know, we were developing a way
Jared Greer:to test for breast cancer using women's tears. You know, we had
Jared Greer:some success in business plan competitions, ended up not
Jared Greer:moving forward with that company for a variety of reasons, that
Jared Greer:technology was picked up though, and, and is still being
Jared Greer:researched and commercialized today with a another Northwest
Jared Greer:Arkansas medical device company. So I had you know, I've had a
Jared Greer:long relationship with with with Carol and and kind of seen that
Jared Greer:but when I came back after after we founded lapovations and I
Jared Greer:came back to school a big part of that a big part of the reason
Jared Greer:was to participate in that new development program again. And
Jared Greer:at that time, you know, there this ecosystem was starting to
Jared Greer:develop. Right. And, you know, startup junkie was was there,
Jared Greer:innovate Arkansas was there. It was the first year for the Delta
Jared Greer:I Fund, which I believe at that time was an Innovate Arkansas
Jared Greer:program and they were affiliated, you know, somehow
Jared Greer:maybe funded by the Winrock Foundation. You know, ASB TDC
Jared Greer:right, they they have been phenomenal and helping to
Jared Greer:provide us mark reports and strategy sessions. And, you
Jared Greer:know, what, what Marybeth Brooks has done over there has just
Jared Greer:been phenomenally helpful. You know, grant writing assistance.
Jared Greer:And so, you know, that was that was our, I guess, initial
Jared Greer:relationships with those organizations, but that has
Jared Greer:expanded, you know, Health Tech Arkansas and what Jeff Stinson
Jared Greer:is doing over there, you know, we were part of their first
Jared Greer:cohort in 2018. And, you know, that provided some much needed
Jared Greer:capital to continue that customer validation that we
Jared Greer:discussed earlier. You know, some of the some of the
Jared Greer:resources they provided to us, directly led to some of the
Jared Greer:grant funding that we were able to receive from the National
Jared Greer:Science Foundation. And so, you know, I, we would not be here
Jared Greer:lapovations would not be here as a company today, we would not
Jared Greer:have AB grab being launched nationally to surgeons around
Jared Greer:the country, without each of those support organizations
Jared Greer:helping us along the way. And, and being able to provide both
Jared Greer:financial support, as well as guidance, you know, when we were
Jared Greer:encountering whatever problem or whatever challenge it happened
Jared Greer:to be at that time to get us to the next step. So we're, we're
Jared Greer:we're just very grateful. And I think that having that ecosystem
Jared Greer:and that structure in place, is going to lead to that startup
Jared Greer:community that community, that entrepreneurial community that
Jared Greer:we are we are trying to build here in Northwest Arkansas.
Matt Waller:Wel, and you're absolutely right. There's a lot
Matt Waller:Sure. So we actually have two focuses right now with our
Matt Waller:of companies that wouldn't have started without all these
Matt Waller:organizations. And actually, Mary Beth Brooks's organization,
Matt Waller:played a key part in keeping companies alive. During the
Matt Waller:early stages of the pandemic, she was really engaged and made
Matt Waller:a big difference. But we can't forget, a lot of this wouldn't
Matt Waller:have been possible without the Walton Family Foundation. The
Matt Waller:Walton Family Foundation has a division called the home region.
Matt Waller:And, you know, the home region is run by a guy named Robert
Matt Waller:Burns. And one part of the home region is focused on the
Matt Waller:entrepreneurial ecosystem and here, and it's run by a person
Matt Waller:named Yee Lin Lai. And she, I met her quite a few years ago,
Matt Waller:but she did something similar in Singapore. I don't know if you
Matt Waller:know that a long time ago. And but we are fortunate to have
Matt Waller:that I mean, really the Walton Family Foundation. So many of
Matt Waller:the organizations you mentioned, got their start through the
Matt Waller:Walton Family Foundation. In our case we haven't mentioned, I
Matt Waller:mean, you know, there are so many things, we have this new
Matt Waller:master's program called the Masters of Science in product
Matt Waller:innovation, that we couldn't have got off the ground if it
Matt Waller:weren't for the Walton Family Foundation. And then we have the
Matt Waller:green door, outdoor recreation program, we call it GORP that
Matt Waller:helps, it's an incubator accelerator for early stage
Matt Waller:startup outdoor products, services and technology
Matt Waller:companies. And I think we're in our second cohort now, and it's
Matt Waller:pretty successful, it's very encouraging to see. But now all
Matt Waller:this is proliferating because of these organizations that are
Matt Waller:helping, and it's also drawing people here from other regions,
Matt Waller:because of, you know, all the resources that are here. Jared,
Matt Waller:how are you planning to scale this from a sales perspective
Matt Waller:right now?
Matt Waller:company, two big, big focuses. The first is investment. We are
Matt Waller:about three quarters of the way through a Series A fundraising.
Matt Waller:And the goal of those funds or the usage of those funds is
Matt Waller:going to be the national launch of our first product, AB Grab.
Matt Waller:The second focus that we have is is that national launch, right?
Matt Waller:We have 22 sales reps around the country who have the product,
Matt Waller:and they're getting in front of surgeons right now getting in
Matt Waller:front of hospitals. They're getting tremendously positive
Matt Waller:feedback. Surgeons are loving this device we've heard several
Matt Waller:times across the country. Why didn't I think of this? Right?
Matt Waller:And so it's we're very excited about that, but we're in the
Matt Waller:process of scaling up over the next 12 months, we want to have
Matt Waller:100 sales reps across the country with this product. We
Matt Waller:hope that those 100 sales reps can, you know, cover roughly 200
Matt Waller:million of the population of the United States here. And so, you
Matt Waller:know, we're we're in the process of raising the funds to do that
Matt Waller:and putting the processes and protocols in place and probably
Matt Waller:most importantly, getting the right people on the bus.
Matt Waller:On behalf of the Sam M. Walton College of Business. I want to
Matt Waller:thank everyone for spending time with us for another engaging
Matt Waller:conversation. You can subscribe by going to your favorite
Matt Waller:podcast service and searching be epic. B E E P I C
