Episode 223

full
Published on:

19th Apr 2023

The Evolving World of Accounting with Barbara Marchini-Ellis

This week on the podcast Matt sits down with Barbara Marchini-Ellis, Partner at EY. They begin the episode with Barbara discussing her journey through the accounting field, from her diverse background in Silicon Valley to leading EY’s work with Walmart in Northwest Arkansas. Barbara then walks through how the accounting industry has changed during her 35 years of experience, touching on the importance of business ethics and integrity. The conversation concludes with Matt asking Barbara what has kept her at EY for the entirety of her career and Barbara’s work with the Endeavor Board in Northwest Arkansas. 

Transcript
Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I'd say the progression I've seen is a

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

lot of times it was entrepreneurs coming here to

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

work with the big retailers and CPGs and trucking companies and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

now it's more companies wanting to headquarter and form their

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

home here in Northwest Arkansas.

Matt Waller:

Excellence, professionalism, innovation and

Matt Waller:

collegiality. These are the values the Sam M. Walton College

Matt Waller:

of Business explores in education, business, and the

Matt Waller:

lives of people we meet every day, I'm Matt Waller, Dean of

Matt Waller:

the Walton College and welcome to the Be Epic Podcast. I have

Matt Waller:

with me today, Barbara Marchini-Ellis, who's a Partner

Matt Waller:

at EY. And she has been there for 35 years. Most of her career

Matt Waller:

was in San Francisco and Silicon Valley. And now she's been in

Matt Waller:

Rogers since 2018. Thank you so much for joining me today,

Matt Waller:

Barbara.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Thank you for inviting me.

Matt Waller:

And thank you for your involvement with our board

Matt Waller:

and our accounting department. I appreciate that. So Barbara, you

Matt Waller:

have a lot of experience with EY obviously. And now you're a

Matt Waller:

partner. How long ago did you become partner?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I've been a partner for actually

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

close to 25 years. So the majority of my career with EY

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

has been in the role of partner.

Matt Waller:

And you have a lot of experience with global type

Matt Waller:

multinational clients. And you have lots of experience, I

Matt Waller:

think, probably in part to your being in Silicon Valley with the

Matt Waller:

technology industry and internet advertising, IT services,

Matt Waller:

software and others. And now you're in Northwest Arkansas,

Matt Waller:

dealing with retail and omnichannel retail. How was that

Matt Waller:

transition for you from a from a work type perspective?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yeah, you know, it's been a really

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

interesting journey. I mean, you know, obviously, when we think

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

about Silicon Valley, we think about tech, and I often tell new

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

recruits that a lot of the companies who are our core

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

clients now didn't exist when I graduated from college, right,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you think of the Oracles and the Googles. And, and many of those

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

companies, they didn't exist back in the 80s, when, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

when I started in the profession, so actually, when I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

started with EY, I did start in consumer products, I worked with

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

companies like Del Monte Foods, I worked with some wineries. And

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

then I had kind of some multidisciplinary, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

financial service conglomerates that were clients, so I'd always

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

kind of gotten experience working with bigger companies.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

And then as the demographic of the Bay Area, and Silicon Valley

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

changed, I started working more in tech. So everything from

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

technology hardware, like a Hewlett Packard, and then you

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

know, higher end networking equipment and and, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

eventually into internet advertising with companies like

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Google and Facebook, and so built a pretty, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

diverse background. And, and so the opportunity came up to lead

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

our work with Walmart, and with really the changing profile of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the company there and all their varied interests, sort of that

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

history that I had had of, you know, everything from consumer

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

products to tech was was was very, very interesting. So

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

that's what brought me to Rogers, four or five years ago.

Matt Waller:

You you've been in accounting, your career during

Matt Waller:

your career and accounting has changed accounting firms have

Matt Waller:

changed. What are some of the big changes you've seen over

Matt Waller:

your career?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yeah, you know, you mentioned the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

firms have changed when I started, there were eight, eight

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

major multinational firms.

Matt Waller:

I still want to say the big eight.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yeah. So do I some days. You know, now

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

we're, we're at four multinational firms. I think

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

that clearly, when I started in the industry, we were not a

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

regulated industry. Currently, we are a regulated industry.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

And, you know, I think, for everyone who's been through that

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

journey, that that does make some changes. I mean, our

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

general our, our oversight by a regulator certainly has, you

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

know, increased quality of the of the industry in the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

profession and that's, that's always a good thing. You know, I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

think clients have become more sophisticated. I mean, when you

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

think about when I started auditing, you had ERP systems,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

but nothing like what you have today, right? And and, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

we I always tell people I could never be a staff accountant

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

today because, you know, we wrote everything out by hand

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

clients would hand us binders of information to evidence

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

transactions. And now, you know, we audit in a much, much

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

different way. And it's not only how we memorialize what we do

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

being, you know, electronic versus manual, but it's also

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

just the way that we approach the way we audit, we, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

we take data sets out of ERPs. And, and look at how data is

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

moving through systems, and then also look at, you know, evidence

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

of real information to get comfort, right, that what's

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

moving through these systems is, is based in reality and real

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

transactions our clients are entering into, but it's a much

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

different, a much different way of auditing than when I started.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

And then the profession in general, you know, has also

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

moved from opining just on financial statements to also

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

opining on internal control. And so that's certainly brought

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

another big change to the profession since, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

since I started 30 plus years ago,

Matt Waller:

So, you know, there's all of these industries

Matt Waller:

are changing, you know, if you look at retail, for example,

Matt Waller:

retail is changing dramatically, especially with omni channel,

Matt Waller:

people are able to go in the store order in the store, get

Matt Waller:

pickup, get delivery, get delivery in home, delivery

Matt Waller:

through drones, just so many different, retails become very

Matt Waller:

complicated. For the the retailers, the number of

Matt Waller:

suppliers, they have to have has gone up dramatically, especially

Matt Waller:

for dot com type stuff. And all of that is really driven by

Matt Waller:

technology on the one hand and, and competition on the other.

Matt Waller:

But how do you see accounting and auditing changing over the

Matt Waller:

next decade or so?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

You know, think there's going to be

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

a continuation of what of what we've currently seen, in terms

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

of, you know, moving more into a digital way of auditing and, and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

looking more at reliance upon systems, trends in the data and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

looking at full data sets. Versus a lot of times, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

traditional auditing was focused more on testing through

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

sampling, right. So you have millions and billions of dollars

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

of revenue, and you pick samples of hundreds of transactions that

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

are deemed to be statistically valid samples. And you draw

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

conclusions that way. Now, right, we take entirety of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

datasets, and can look for the anomalies, and test to make sure

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

that we understand the process about how all of these

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

transactions make it into the system. So it's, it's a very

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

different, different way of doing that. And I think we're

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

really just at the forefront of that as a profession in terms of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

deploying those types of procedures, and where, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

how it can fundamentally change our audits. And it's, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

it's an exciting thing for our people, because it gives them

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the bigger picture more quickly, in terms of how, how companies

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

operate, and, and how we can, you know, draw conclusions,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

really, with, hopefully higher levels of assurance and higher

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

levels of certainty than we're able to, you know, today, the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

way our audits are designed.

Matt Waller:

You know, one thing that we started. So when I

Matt Waller:

became Dean eight years ago, I went around and talked to a lot

Matt Waller:

of our alumni. I would say 100 most successful alumni all over

Matt Waller:

the world, and asked them a couple of questions in different

Matt Waller:

ways. One was, what could we do as a college that would make you

Matt Waller:

more proud to be an alum? And what do I not know that if I

Matt Waller:

knew would help me manage better and lead better as Dean. I said

Matt Waller:

it in different ways, but those were the two things I was trying

Matt Waller:

to get at. And one thing wasn't necessarily number one, but it

Matt Waller:

was up there and it was frequent. And, you know, some of

Matt Waller:

these alumni went through our undergrad program somewhat

Matt Waller:

through our masters, one of our master's programs, some went

Matt Waller:

through both. But something that came up a lot was business

Matt Waller:

ethics. And they basically said, you know, we think you could do

Matt Waller:

more on business ethics. You know, with academic institutions

Matt Waller:

changing curriculum is very complicated. It's done through

Matt Waller:

the faculty. It's not top down, and it can't be. It just doesn't

Matt Waller:

work that way. But faculty are aware of what they're doing and

Matt Waller:

what their their specific areas are. And they naturally update

Matt Waller:

things. I met the Chief Ethics Officer of Walmart, she had been

Matt Waller:

Chief Ethics Officer for like 20 years at Walmart, Cindy

Matt Waller:

Moehring, you may know her I don't know. So when she retired,

Matt Waller:

she came on board, and began, she founded and started leading

Matt Waller:

the Business Integrity Leadership Initiative. But when

Matt Waller:

she did it, she found out that only about 15% of our students

Matt Waller:

were getting any substantive education in business ethics.

Matt Waller:

And so she, she really, she did a good job of working with

Matt Waller:

faculty to change the curriculum. And now 100% get it.

Matt Waller:

But one of the things that we've done is we have a lot of guests

Matt Waller:

come and speak to our college and meet with us. And we created

Matt Waller:

badges, achievement badges for learning certain things in

Matt Waller:

business ethics. So recently, we had the whistleblower for

Matt Waller:

Theranos, Erika Cheung came in, and she spoke to us but she also

Matt Waller:

like, our leadership team had lunch with her and we had

Matt Waller:

different, she had several meetings with us over the time

Matt Waller:

she was here. This doesn't have anything to do with accounting,

Matt Waller:

per se, but but then we also had the whistleblower for Enron come

Matt Waller:

in, as well. And, of course, we're off. I mean, these are big

Matt Waller:

time scandals you know that I, I mentioned, but there's lots of

Matt Waller:

them that occur. But I remember when I was talking to when we

Matt Waller:

were talking to the whistleblower for Enron, you

Matt Waller:

know, she said, she didn't think she was uncovering something

Matt Waller:

real big. It was more, she was thinking, there's a problem

Matt Waller:

here. And it needs to be addressed. And of course,

Matt Waller:

eventually, she was asked to talk to the CEO about it. And

Matt Waller:

she thought that's kind of strange. But, but in many cases,

Matt Waller:

these people that blow the whistle are accountants, not

Matt Waller:

always like Erika Cheung was a scientist. But many times they

Matt Waller:

don't know they've uncovered something so big. And they're

Matt Waller:

always surprised that how many people have gone along with

Matt Waller:

everything up to that point.th

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Waller:

Do you have any advice for us as a college,

Matt Waller:

around things that you think are worth looking into, you know,

Matt Waller:

from a business integrity, ethics perspective, and

Matt Waller:

furthering?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

You know, I think, to your point,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

business ethics is sort of the foundation of everything, you

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

know, when when we look at working with companies and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

accepting clients, one of the first things we do is, is

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

background checks, both on the company and on the key

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

executives of the company, and, and selecting clients that we

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

believe are ethical and trustworthy and forthright and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

motivated to do the right thing. Are is sort of the foundation

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

of, you know, how, how we we built a practice and decide who,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you know, who we want to be associated with. But to your

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

point, you know, a lot of people as as these things come to

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

light, a lot of times it is a history, right? It's a history,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

it's a culture, it's been there, and those types of things can

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

change on the margin very slightly to where it just

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

becomes, you know, feels normal. Right, and that, that becomes

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

challenging. And so, you know, I think a lot of it is making sure

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

that in every, in each and every one of us, whether you're on the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

service provider side or the client side, right, you you just

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

have that strength and moral fortitude to keep your you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

your moral compass where it where it needs to be and to ask

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

questions, and when something just doesn't, doesn't feel

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

right, or you don't understand it. I think, you know, a lot of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

it from you know, and the public accounting profession isn't

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

isn't immune to those matters, either. Right? We've had our own

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

challenges and from time to time, their behaviors in the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

organization, including EY that, you know, are other than what we

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

aspire to, and you have to deal with those and recognize those

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

and a lot of it becomes a big culture shift, right? There's,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

there's consequences for individuals, but then, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you have to kind of step back and say, Is this part of our

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

culture and what do we want and need our culture to be? So I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

think a lot of it is is just each and every individual, like

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I said, really having the strength and the conviction that

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

if it doesn't seem right, or it doesn't feel right, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you need, you can't audit, you know, you shouldn't

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

automatically assume there's something malicious going on.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

But you just have to raise your hand and ask questions. You

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

know.

Matt Waller:

So Barbara, you have elected to be in the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yeah, it's a great question. Given

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

our, what we do in our profession, and having sort of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

profession, your entire career. And you've been with EY for 35

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

annual cycles, that that, that that that come to a close each

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

year, there's a natural opportunity for reflection. And

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

in asking yourself, how have I grown this year? Is this a

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

career I want to continue to invest in? And I'll have to say

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

that, you know, in public accounting, and with Ernst and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Young specifically, I've felt that each year I've grown, I've

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

pushed myself, you know, beyond my comfort zone, and I'm doing

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

things that I would not have thought possible even a year or

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

two, prior, you know, and that continues, frankly, continues

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

today, you know, 35 years into my career. So it's, it's really

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

been the growth opportunities that come with the profession,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the ability to, and that comes to being able to see different

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

companies being able to talk to different different people at

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

different companies and in your younger years, right? It's,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you're you're working with, with control younger folks within

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

within your clients. But then as you progress, right, you're

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

years. So, two questions. What is it that's kept you in the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

starting to work with more senior executives. So over the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

profession this long? And two, what is it that's kept you with

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

years learning perspectives from from the CFOs, and CEOs, at at

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the clients I've worked with has just been very, very valuable.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

And I think what's also been rewarding is when you kind of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

pivot from, hey, you're the auditor to, when you walk into

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the office of an executive later in your career, and they're

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

really looking to you for counsel and advice, right, you

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

become a trusted adviser to them. That is hugely, hugely

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

firm so long?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

rewarding. As I've entered into the the later stages of my

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

career, it's also been taking that out into the public. So

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I've had the opportunity recently to to join some boards,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you know, board here in Northwest Arkansas that I'm on

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

is in, you know, the Endeavor board. So working with early

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

stage entrepreneurs. And again, that ability to kind of give

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

back to early stage entrepreneurs, based on the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

experiences gained with a variety of companies has been

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

huge. So for me, it's really been just continuous growth. And

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I see that, you know, continuing through the remaining years, of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

my my career as well.

Matt Waller:

Well, you know, serving on Endeavors board,

Matt Waller:

helping entrepreneurs, you're a perfect fit for that, because of

Matt Waller:

your experience in Silicon Valley, I would think. Endeavor,

Matt Waller:

here in Northwest Arkansas, it's a global organization. But there

Matt Waller:

is an office here, for those listening that don't know about

Matt Waller:

it. They really look for what they call high impact

Matt Waller:

entrepreneurs, people who are dreaming big, they want to scale

Matt Waller:

faster. They've got good leaders in place. And they but endeavor

Matt Waller:

is, is doing really well here. And I think, you know, globally,

Matt Waller:

they've they've had a huge impact. They've had lots of

Matt Waller:

early stage founders that wound up with unicorns, inside and

Matt Waller:

outside of the US. So how long have you been working with Endeavor?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

I've been on the board now three

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

years. And working with Canem and the rest of the board there.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

It's been a great experience.

Matt Waller:

Do you think your your connections and just

Matt Waller:

experience in Silicon Valley, do you see things that we're

Matt Waller:

missing here a bit that we need in Northwest Arkansas? Or are

Matt Waller:

you able to kind of fill in the gaps for some of these early

Matt Waller:

stage companies?

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

You know, I think it's been

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

interesting for me to watch over the last three, four years, how

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the the maturity profile of the companies that we work with in

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

endeavor has changed, you know, initially, you know, maybe the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

business models weren't as broad the level of tractions that

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

companies had were not as extensive But over time, I think

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

because of much of the mentoring that a lot of the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

entrepreneurial support groups to Northwest Arkansas have

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

attracted here a lot of the mentoring they've been able to

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

provide. It's been huge, right? Whether it's executives like

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Marc Lore, who maybe would have never thought about Northwest

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Arkansas, right, had it had it not been for Jet being acquired

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

by Walmart, or, you know, various other resources being

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

attracted to the middle of the country. There's greater

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

awareness of Northwest Arkansas, and all and more resources

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

coming here to provide that mentoring and support that I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

think continue to help mature the entrepreneurial ecosystem. I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

mean, I think the other the other angle to it is that the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

capital needs to follow. You know, we we we have, you know,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

some of our our venture capital folks that have visited here in

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Northwest Arkansas and some of the conferences and so forth

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

over the last few years. And I think whether it's corporate VC

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

funds, contributing more or attracting other sources of

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

funding to the middle of the country, that's we're seeing

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

more of it than we did when I first came here in 2018. But I

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

think that's, that's sort of the next step. You know, I'd say the

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

progression I've seen is a lot of times as entrepreneurs coming

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

here to work with the big retailers and CPGs and trucking

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

companies, and now it's more companies wanting to headquarter

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

and form their home here in Northwest Arkansas. So I think,

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

you know, bringing in that support, mentoring and

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

financial, is really going to be the foundation of, of growing

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

the entrepreneurial community here.

Matt Waller:

Well, Barbara, I'm glad you're here in Northwest

Matt Waller:

Arkansas, and all you're doing and thank you for hiring our

Matt Waller:

students and for engaging with our college really appreciate

Matt Waller:

that. It was pleasure visiting with you and thank you so much.

Barbara Marchini-Ellis:

Yep, thank you.

Matt Waller:

On behalf of the Sam M. Walton College of

Matt Waller:

Business, I want to thank everyone for spending time with

Matt Waller:

us for another engaging conversation. You can subscribe

Matt Waller:

by going to your favorite podcast service and searching Be

Listen for free

Show artwork for Be EPIC Podcast

About the Podcast

Be EPIC Podcast
Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast featuring Brent Williams, interim dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. In each episode, you will hear from guests that will inspire you to be epic. As experts in their field, they will emphasize strategy, leadership, and entrepreneurship. This programming will highlight innovation and cutting-edge information that will leave you wanting more. Be sure to connect with Brent Williams on LinkedIn to join the conversation, access show notes and discover fantastic bonus content.