Episode 250

full
Published on:

25th Oct 2023

Shaping the Future of Medicine with Dr. Sharmila Makhija

This week on the Be Epic podcast, Brent sits down with Dr. Sharmila Makhija, the founding dean and CEO of the Alice L. Walton School of Medicine. Dr. Makhija shares her insights and experiences in establishing a medical school from scratch, highlighting the unique opportunity it presents. Listeners will learn about the school's innovative whole-health approach to its MD curriculum and partnerships with the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and the Whole Health Institute. Later in the episode Dr. Makhija discusses her background, growing up in a family of educators, and her early passion for medicine. She recounts how her exposure to her grandfather's medical practice in India solidified her desire to become a doctor. Dr. Makhija also shares her journey through medical school and her chosen specialty, highlighting the value of being curious and continuously learning. The episode offers a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of building a medical school and the personal motivations that drive Dr. Makhija's commitment to healthcare.

Transcript
Sharmila Makhija:

We're also going to incorporate a lot of

Sharmila Makhija:

innovation into the curriculum as well, so that it's not so

Sharmila Makhija:

much work, but it's at least balanced with understanding how

Sharmila Makhija:

technology impacts. AI has become a very big part of

Sharmila Makhija:

healthcare, at least in how we're approaching things. So I

Sharmila Makhija:

think that we're going to hopefully attract students that

Sharmila Makhija:

want to take care of patients to the best of their ability, but

Sharmila Makhija:

also keep up to date with how technology's advancing how we

Sharmila Makhija:

deliver health care.

Brent Williams:

Welcome to the Be Epic podcast, brought to you

Brent Williams:

by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of

Brent Williams:

Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll

Brent Williams:

explore the dynamic landscape of business and uncover the

Brent Williams:

strategies, insights and stories that drive business today. Today

Brent Williams:

I have with me Dr. Sharmila Makhija. And Sharmila is the

Brent Williams:

founding dean and CEO of the Alice L. Walton School of

Brent Williams:

Medicine. Welcome.

Sharmila Makhija:

Thank you so much Brent. We're so happy to be

Sharmila Makhija:

here.

Brent Williams:

Well, we're glad to have you in Northwest

Brent Williams:

Arkansas and are excited about what you're leading and can't

Brent Williams:

wait to talk a little bit more.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah. Happy to talk about it.

Brent Williams:

So starting a medical school from the ground

Brent Williams:

up, what an opportunity.

Sharmila Makhija:

It is. It's really it's one you know a once

Sharmila Makhija:

in a lifetime opportunity, you don't often find that this kind

Sharmila Makhija:

of an opportunity, you might see new medical schools popping up.

Sharmila Makhija:

But usually you have a university that's attached or a

Sharmila Makhija:

hospital, and we don't have either one. So really, we're

Sharmila Makhija:

starting it fully from scratch.

Brent Williams:

Well, excited to see what all you're doing, I

Brent Williams:

know there's wonderful things happening there that we'll dig

Brent Williams:

into. But maybe before we do, we should dig into your background

Brent Williams:

just a little bit. Tell us a little bit about you.

Sharmila Makhija:

Well, I'm born and raised in Montgomery,

Sharmila Makhija:

Alabama, my mom still lives there. There's three of us and

Sharmila Makhija:

the three kids in the family. Both my parents were teachers.

Sharmila Makhija:

My dad was a college chemistry professor of chemistry. Yep.

Brent Williams:

What university?

Sharmila Makhija:

He was at Alabama State University. He

Sharmila Makhija:

trained he got his PhD at Indiana University.

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Sharmila Makhija:

And that was actually the first place mom

Sharmila Makhija:

lived was in Bloomington, Indiana after they got married.

Sharmila Makhija:

So I have fond memories of Indiana University, and I grew

Sharmila Makhija:

up watching Bobby Knight play basketball.

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Sharmila Makhija:

The whole story. Yeah, that's right.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's right. And mom is a retired high school biology

Sharmila Makhija:

teacher. So family of teachers, education was always an

Sharmila Makhija:

important part.

Brent Williams:

I see that science was clearly in the

Brent Williams:

making for you.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes. Yeah. So it was a great upbringing, my,

Sharmila Makhija:

both my parents made sure that whenever we were, you know,

Sharmila Makhija:

sitting down for dinner, we sat as a family. And we talked about

Sharmila Makhija:

what we learned for the day, and how do we make things better for

Sharmila Makhija:

someone else? So I just grew up with, you know, knowing we're

Sharmila Makhija:

going to be asked that question. And then fast forward, that's

Sharmila Makhija:

how I approach things with my own teams.

Brent Williams:

Is, well is, was the answer to that question

Brent Williams:

about how you're going to impact others, is that what led you

Brent Williams:

toward medicine?

Sharmila Makhija:

You know, I knew early on that I was I

Sharmila Makhija:

wanted to be a doctor, my, I think it was about nine when I

Sharmila Makhija:

declared that to my parents. My mom's dad was a doctor and her

Sharmila Makhija:

brother is a doctor. But I really wanted to go spend time

Sharmila Makhija:

with my grandparents that were in India to really solidify if

Sharmila Makhija:

this is what I wanted to do. And, you know, I, I went to

Sharmila Makhija:

India by myself on a Pan Am flight and spent the summer with

Sharmila Makhija:

my grandparents. And I would go with him, carry his doctor's bag

Sharmila Makhija:

and go with him to see patients. And I loved it. I loved every

Sharmila Makhija:

minute of it. You know, a lot of the patients were lined up in

Sharmila Makhija:

the hallways, and they would bring their own child or

Sharmila Makhija:

grandson or granddaughter that spoke English. And so I'd speak

Sharmila Makhija:

to them and find out what the problem was and report it to my

Sharmila Makhija:

grandfather and, and I knew that's what I wanted to do.

Brent Williams:

Well, wonderful. And so tell us a little bit

Brent Williams:

about maybe your journey getting there through medical school and

Brent Williams:

then your chosen specialty.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yeah. So, you know, once I knew that,

Sharmila Makhija:

that's what I really wanted to do. I volunteered at the

Sharmila Makhija:

hospital, I really wanted to get exposed to everything there was

Sharmila Makhija:

as to what a patient endured. I don't know early on I just

Sharmila Makhija:

wanted to understand that not that you know, I questioned

Sharmila Makhija:

things it was just more I was curious. And so I volunteered

Sharmila Makhija:

and then I worked at some of my my parents friends offices and

Sharmila Makhija:

the outpatient offices and I did some of the billing.

Brent Williams:

Oh, wow

Sharmila Makhija:

Front desk things and I think I always just

Sharmila Makhija:

always either curious or bored so I always wanted to learn

Sharmila Makhija:

something.

Sharmila Makhija:

You're too kind, but I really enjoyed it.

Sharmila Makhija:

And so once I decided I wanted to do that, and I really enjoyed

Brent Williams:

I would add motivated, actually, to that

Brent Williams:

it. I went to college, I came back after going to Cornell up

Brent Williams:

in Ithaca, I came back to UAB for med school. And what's

Brent Williams:

interesting is I really thought I was going to do either

Brent Williams:

list.

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Brent Williams:

pediatrics or internal medicine, because that's all I was exposed

Brent Williams:

to. And so I think that's something I always tell my, our

Brent Williams:

own faculty and students, the more you're exposed to things,

Brent Williams:

it really broadens your, your insights as to what resonates

Brent Williams:

with you. And so I back then you had to type out applications

Brent Williams:

were for residency programs. And I thought, well, I have OB GYN

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yes.

Sharmila Makhija:

as my last rotation. But surely, I don't think I'm gonna want to

Sharmila Makhija:

stay up all night delivering babies. I think it's cool. But I

Brent Williams:

Well, I see, you know, one of the things striking

Brent Williams:

don't want to do that. And so I sent out all my applications for

Brent Williams:

internal medicine, thought I would probably do cardiology, or

Brent Williams:

GI. And so I did the rotation on OB GYN and I enjoyed it. But I

Brent Williams:

thought, okay, not enough to change anything. And then I did

Brent Williams:

the GYN section, which is the surgery and I liked it, but not

Brent Williams:

enough. And then one of my classmates was supposed to do

Brent Williams:

the GYN oncology rotation. And he got sick. So they asked me to

Brent Williams:

fill in for him. And GYN oncology is a doctor that does

Brent Williams:

both the surgery for cancer for women, but also gives

Brent Williams:

chemotherapy so you take care of the person the whole time.

Sharmila Makhija:

So I did that and on the first day, I thought,

Sharmila Makhija:

oh, my gosh, I'm gonna have to redo my application. It just

Sharmila Makhija:

clicked. And I loved the doctors I worked with, I wanted to be

Sharmila Makhija:

like them. I loved the patients, even though it seems to be very

Sharmila Makhija:

sad. And it's cancer. They were very grateful. And we just

Sharmila Makhija:

worked as a team. So I really, it clicked with me redid, all

Sharmila Makhija:

the applications. And that's what sent me onto the path of

Sharmila Makhija:

doing OB GYN and then ultimately, my fellowship and

Sharmila Makhija:

GYN oncology at Sloan Kettering.

Sharmila Makhija:

to me in that, is, I could see when you were talking about it,

Sharmila Makhija:

you're the, the interest in maybe joy and satisfaction and

Sharmila Makhija:

taking care of that patient throughout that whole process.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's exactly right. I didn't want my

Sharmila Makhija:

personality is to not do one piece, and then we're gone. And

Sharmila Makhija:

everybody's personality is different not to say it's wrong,

Sharmila Makhija:

if you feel that way. For me, I really want it to be engaged

Sharmila Makhija:

with the family that met with the husbands I probably talked

Sharmila Makhija:

more to the husbands than even the patient's themselves,

Sharmila Makhija:

because they would call saying, she's not able to eat, how can I

Sharmila Makhija:

help her? So I really learned how to help that family unit get

Sharmila Makhija:

through the whole, you know, impact of having a diagnosis of

Sharmila Makhija:

cancer.

Brent Williams:

Yeah so early on, you were interested in the

Brent Williams:

whole person.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's exactly right.

Brent Williams:

And you know, so

Sharmila Makhija:

I see where you're going with this.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, so now, now you find yourself

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah,

Brent Williams:

Leading the Alice L. Walton School of

Brent Williams:

Medicine. Tell us a little bit about one about the emerging

Brent Williams:

medical school, and what you're focused on?

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes. So we are, you know, what, what

Sharmila Makhija:

brought me here was the fact that we're looking at medicine

Sharmila Makhija:

the way I feel like I was trained and practice. So we're

Sharmila Makhija:

looking at how do we take care of the whole person, not just

Sharmila Makhija:

their illness, but how do we even look at possibly preventing

Sharmila Makhija:

that illness? So this school is really utilizing a traditional

Sharmila Makhija:

curriculum, but we're enhancing it with whole health principles.

Sharmila Makhija:

And because we're sitting on a world class, museum ground, how

Sharmila Makhija:

do we infuse the arts and humanities into this, but it's

Sharmila Makhija:

that whole person approach, looking at their mental well,

Sharmila Makhija:

being social well being, you know, as much as we can

Sharmila Makhija:

incorporate early on, on how to diagnose it, and how to address

Sharmila Makhija:

it, I think is very helpful for students to have that skill set.

Brent Williams:

And this will be one of a kind?

Sharmila Makhija:

You know, we like to say we're one of a kind,

Sharmila Makhija:

I think there are many schools that use parts of it. I think

Sharmila Makhija:

what we're doing differently is we're doing it, immediately

Sharmila Makhija:

incorporating it into the curriculum. So I'm always

Sharmila Makhija:

cautious to say one of a kind, but probably.

Brent Williams:

Okay, alright. Fair enough.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yeah.

Brent Williams:

Well, you know, in addition to the School of

Brent Williams:

Medicine, there's also the Whole Health Institute.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

And you alluded to Crystal Bridges.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

The world class Art Museum.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

Will be connected to on the same

Brent Williams:

grounds.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

How will all those fit in?

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah, so the Whole Health Institute is a

Sharmila Makhija:

completely separate organization. We work

Sharmila Makhija:

complementary to each other, but the Whole Health Institute is

Sharmila Makhija:

really focused on advocacy, public policy, health care

Sharmila Makhija:

delivery systems. So how does you know changing from a fee for

Sharmila Makhija:

service type model, to a value based care model, where you're

Sharmila Makhija:

looking at the outcomes, and how you're reimbursed for that, and

Sharmila Makhija:

we want to take some of those principles and put it into the

Sharmila Makhija:

curriculum, teacher, students, teacher faculty, and then as we

Sharmila Makhija:

go out onto the healthcare delivery system with hospital

Sharmila Makhija:

partners, how do we incorporate that in real time? So we're

Sharmila Makhija:

separate but complementary, and work very closely together with them.

Brent Williams:

Okay. And what was striking about that, is that

Brent Williams:

what the Whole Health Institute learns, I'm assuming you can

Brent Williams:

bring back into the school?

Sharmila Makhija:

Absolutely. And I think that's where we want

Sharmila Makhija:

that bridge to happen in real time as much as we can. Because

Sharmila Makhija:

I think it's important to keep, but what we want is for the

Sharmila Makhija:

school to keep in touch with what things are happening or

Sharmila Makhija:

evolving, and apply them as quickly as we can. So I even

Sharmila Makhija:

imagine the curriculum we have now will evolve, because we want

Sharmila Makhija:

to be able to, you know, within reason to incorporate those

Sharmila Makhija:

learnings, because it just helps a soon to be physician learn

Sharmila Makhija:

those skill sets to apply.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, and I assume both the School of

Brent Williams:

Medicine and the Whole Health Institute are able to connect

Brent Williams:

into various partners, healthcare system partners?

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah. And we're exploring all that right

Sharmila Makhija:

now we're looking at how we work with our local hospital systems.

Sharmila Makhija:

Because I think that's probably the most important piece. And as

Sharmila Makhija:

you know, we want to build up our pay our physician population

Sharmila Makhija:

in the region, I think that's so needed. So working with hospital

Sharmila Makhija:

partners is going to be key for that.

Brent Williams:

And one of the, I guess, I think, stated goals

Brent Williams:

is that, that this school will create more physicians that will

Brent Williams:

hopefully stay in Northwest Arkansas or Arkansas.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's right. And what we know is that when a

Sharmila Makhija:

physician when a student graduates from med school and

Sharmila Makhija:

goes to for residency program, which is the next, next step

Sharmila Makhija:

with training in that particular field, they tend to stay in that

Sharmila Makhija:

region. And so our goal is to increase residency slots

Sharmila Makhija:

locally. You know, we're working together with our partners,

Sharmila Makhija:

because that only helps the whole state. So increasing those

Sharmila Makhija:

residency slots, will likely retain people to stay here and

Sharmila Makhija:

work. And we need a hospital systems for them to work at. So

Sharmila Makhija:

I think that as we look at the students that we're graduating,

Sharmila Makhija:

we gotta look forward as to where they're going to work.

Brent Williams:

Yeah. Well, as you're, as you're starting to,

Brent Williams:

and I know you're a little ways away from recruiting students.

Brent Williams:

But you know, what kind of student do you think is going to

Brent Williams:

choose the Alice L. Walton School of Medicine?

Sharmila Makhija:

You know, I think, well, we we are assuming

Sharmila Makhija:

we're going to attract a lot of students that are interested in

Sharmila Makhija:

looking at this whole person approach. But we're also going

Sharmila Makhija:

to incorporate a lot of innovation into the curriculum

Sharmila Makhija:

as well, we're again exploring how to develop this curriculum.

Sharmila Makhija:

So that it's not so much work, but it's at least balanced with

Sharmila Makhija:

understanding how technology impacts, AI is become a very big

Sharmila Makhija:

part of healthcare, at least in how we're approaching things. So

Sharmila Makhija:

I think that we're going to hopefully attract students that

Sharmila Makhija:

want to take care of patients to the best of their ability, but

Sharmila Makhija:

also keep up to date with how technology is advancing how we

Sharmila Makhija:

deliver healthcare.

Brent Williams:

And technology, artificial intelligence,

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yes, it does. I think we're still

Sharmila Makhija:

particularly, has a tremendous opportunity to have a big

Sharmila Makhija:

positive impact in healthcare.

Sharmila Makhija:

learning how that really looks, because you can have almost

Sharmila Makhija:

sometimes too much information and how do you process it. But I

Sharmila Makhija:

think that embracing the changes and proactively looking at how

Sharmila Makhija:

we can incorporate that, whether it's the curriculum or in the

Sharmila Makhija:

healthcare delivery system, I think that's going to be key on

Sharmila Makhija:

making us actually a little bit different.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, well, just the ability one, I guess the

Brent Williams:

notion that you're going to be constantly on the outlook for

Brent Williams:

what's changing and bringing that in, in as real time as

Brent Williams:

possible.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yeah.

Brent Williams:

And I know that you have to have a standard

Brent Williams:

curriculum, but you're gonna be able to enhance it in these

Sharmila Makhija:

Exactly. That's exactly right. And I

Sharmila Makhija:

ways.

Sharmila Makhija:

always say within reason, because we can be very

Sharmila Makhija:

aspirational, put a lot of things, but we also have to make

Sharmila Makhija:

it doable, and make it so that we are getting feedback from the

Sharmila Makhija:

students as well, what's working, what's not, hey, what

Sharmila Makhija:

are we missing? So we really want this to be, you know, a

Sharmila Makhija:

very interactive type of curriculum with input that just

Sharmila Makhija:

keeps on top of the current state.

Brent Williams:

Yep. Well, I know that, you know, I think

Brent Williams:

I've heard you say, and this is an MD degree that's enhanced by

Brent Williams:

whole health and there's core things that are involved in an

Brent Williams:

MD degree, right?

Brent Williams:

There's accreditation. So I assume

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Sharmila Makhija:

you're working through all of those things.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes. In fact, we sent in our big set of

Sharmila Makhija:

paperwork back in July for the, the program accreditation, which

Sharmila Makhija:

is called LCME. And they are now going to be reviewing our

Sharmila Makhija:

paperwork in October. And we will soon find out when our site

Sharmila Makhija:

visit is which would be anywhere from four to six months after

Sharmila Makhija:

they decide.

Brent Williams:

Okay.

Sharmila Makhija:

So that will be the first, we we consider

Sharmila Makhija:

this the first hurdle, this will be the next hurdle of getting

Sharmila Makhija:

through that. And once we get preliminary accreditation, then

Sharmila Makhija:

we'll be able to recruit students. So we're, we're

Sharmila Makhija:

predicting that a year from now, if all goes well, we'll be able

Sharmila Makhija:

to start the recruitment for students to start in the fall of

Sharmila Makhija:

2025.

Brent Williams:

Well, congratulations on that hurdle.

Brent Williams:

And that is a big hurdle.

Sharmila Makhija:

It's a big hurdle. Yeah. And the team, I

Sharmila Makhija:

have to say, you know, I'm coming here to speak on behalf

Sharmila Makhija:

of the team, I just want to say because the team is really quite

Sharmila Makhija:

spectacular, that just working very hard, as you can imagine.

Sharmila Makhija:

It's a startup mode feel.

Brent Williams:

Yeah.

Sharmila Makhija:

And it's a lot of work.

Brent Williams:

It is, but I know it will be worth it. I know

Brent Williams:

we'll have a huge impact. You know, speaking of your, the

Brent Williams:

students that will come. You know, I heard you say something

Brent Williams:

you were speaking not too long ago, and I heard you say

Brent Williams:

something that caught my attention that you were going to

Brent Williams:

focus some on how those health care professionals will take

Brent Williams:

care of themselves.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah, yes. So we have, we're looking at

Sharmila Makhija:

incorporating self care coaching or self coaching for self care.

Sharmila Makhija:

And, again, working with the Whole Health Institute on

Sharmila Makhija:

developing that model, we want the students to be able to know

Sharmila Makhija:

how to take care of themselves. You know, burnout is a big issue

Sharmila Makhija:

in many fields, especially in health care. And we feel very

Sharmila Makhija:

strongly that equipping the students with certain skill sets

Sharmila Makhija:

to be able to take care of themselves, so that they can

Sharmila Makhija:

take care of others is really the way to look at things. So

Sharmila Makhija:

that's going to be a very important piece of this is not

Sharmila Makhija:

only just the teaching of, you know the information, but

Sharmila Makhija:

learning how to take care of themselves.

Brent Williams:

Did did you, did you see a marked difference

Brent Williams:

post-COVID versus pre-COVID in burnout and some of these?

Sharmila Makhija:

Oh, yes. And I think you know, what I saw and I

Sharmila Makhija:

was up in New York, when we were first hit, and just developing

Sharmila Makhija:

new models of care, right, doing a lot of things by telemedicine.

Sharmila Makhija:

What we saw were that all the health care professionals, from

Sharmila Makhija:

the nurses, to the doctors, to the support teams, really

Sharmila Makhija:

stepped up and really came into play to help take care of very

Sharmila Makhija:

sick patients. But at a cost, you know, a lot of they were

Sharmila Makhija:

already working very hard. And now we you know, double the

Sharmila Makhija:

amount of work basically, under duress. I mean, everybody was

Sharmila Makhija:

nervous about contracting COVID. We didn't know what to expect.

Sharmila Makhija:

But we did see once we started to the pandemic started to slow

Sharmila Makhija:

down or resolve. I think it all caught up. And people were that

Sharmila Makhija:

all the professionals were really exhausted, and really

Sharmila Makhija:

thought, hey, you know, life is short. How do I do things

Sharmila Makhija:

better? And how do I take care of myself? So that's where

Sharmila Makhija:

burnout has become a big topic. And it does come down to do we

Sharmila Makhija:

have the skill sets? Do we also have the support services, to

Sharmila Makhija:

help the professionals get through something? Like any kind

Sharmila Makhija:

of emotional type of distress from a situation. Mental social

Sharmila Makhija:

well being. Things like that.

Brent Williams:

Ok,

Brent Williams:

and, you know, I don't think we've talked yet

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah,

Sharmila Makhija:

about we've mentioned being on the grounds of Crystal Bridges.

Sharmila Makhija:

And if you're listening and haven't been there, one, you

Sharmila Makhija:

should go,

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

but two, when if you've been there, or if you end

Brent Williams:

up there at some point, you'll just notice the striking beauty

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah,

Brent Williams:

All around.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

And and your facilities will be nestled

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, we'll be within walking, you know, trail

Sharmila Makhija:

throughout that.

Sharmila Makhija:

distance from from the museum. And we feel very important that

Sharmila Makhija:

because we have the privilege of being on the same grounds, we

Sharmila Makhija:

want to incorporate the arts to how we, you know, we're

Sharmila Makhija:

exploring how that looks. But you know, on a simple scale, if

Sharmila Makhija:

you even go look at a piece of art, you and I might be seeing

Sharmila Makhija:

the same piece of art but we see something different. So just

Sharmila Makhija:

even honing in on our skills of how we look at things, how we

Sharmila Makhija:

diagnose things, how we communicate, what we're seeing,

Sharmila Makhija:

I think will only help when we're looking at patients that

Sharmila Makhija:

are ill and you again two doctors are going to look at it

Sharmila Makhija:

very differently. But the more we can look at things to pick up

Sharmila Makhija:

on subtleties, I think will only enhance the patient physician

Sharmila Makhija:

provider relationship.

Brent Williams:

Such an interesting analogy.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yes.

Brent Williams:

What about nature? I think I think that

Brent Williams:

will be incor- incorporated throughout the building?

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, exactly. So the building itself was

Sharmila Makhija:

designed by Polk Stanley Wilcox. And they really did a beautiful

Sharmila Makhija:

job of looking at even using natural materials that are from

Sharmila Makhija:

Arkansas, to build the building. And it's we wanted it to be a

Sharmila Makhija:

part of the community and the nature piece, we didn't want it

Sharmila Makhija:

to be just standing up there very, very distinct. We wanted

Sharmila Makhija:

it to be so that it was inviting to everyone. So there will be a

Sharmila Makhija:

community pond, a reflection pool, you can even walk up to

Sharmila Makhija:

the very top of the roof because there will be a rooftop garden

Sharmila Makhija:

amphitheater, so we wanted our students to be able to also

Sharmila Makhija:

learn in a very natural environment. But we also wanted

Sharmila Makhija:

our community to be able to come in, not be afraid of it, we

Sharmila Makhija:

wanted it to be very inviting. And there are studies that show

Sharmila Makhija:

when you are studying amongst nature, or you're taking walks

Sharmila Makhija:

and things like that, it improves the way you learn. So I

Sharmila Makhija:

think it was done in a very mindful way, of course, from

Sharmila Makhija:

our, our incredible founder, Alice Walton really felt this

Sharmila Makhija:

was important to have. And so it's really quite spectacular.

Brent Williams:

Yeah, well, I know it will be absolutely

Brent Williams:

beautiful. It will be quite unique in itself for a medical

Brent Williams:

school, I guess, to be incorporated, not only in

Brent Williams:

nature. But

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes,

Brent Williams:

I'm sure there's not another one that's right

Brent Williams:

next to a museum.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's right, not that I've seen, and that

Sharmila Makhija:

we'll have some of the artwork from the museum as well in the

Sharmila Makhija:

area. So I think it's going to be the building itself will be

Sharmila Makhija:

really kind of fun. And inside the building will have all the

Sharmila Makhija:

state of the art technology simulation centers, and anatomy

Sharmila Makhija:

labs that are really more cutting edge. I think it's

Sharmila Makhija:

really going to be a quite a spectacular learning environment

Sharmila Makhija:

inside and outside.

Brent Williams:

You know, when we were talking about your

Brent Williams:

purpose, and the why and creating the medical school, and

Brent Williams:

a significant part of that purpose being that we would

Brent Williams:

create more physicians that would stay in Arkansas, I think

Brent Williams:

there's other opportunities for impact. And we were talking

Brent Williams:

That's right. That's right.

Brent Williams:

Lots of ways for this for the School of Medicine and Whole

Brent Williams:

Health Institute,

Sharmila Makhija:

right

Brent Williams:

to positively impact Arkansas.

Sharmila Makhija:

That's right. And, you know, our mission is to

Sharmila Makhija:

bridge health for everyone. And so we really, we're looking at,

Sharmila Makhija:

if if we even just get to the to the data, Arkansas is ranked 48

Sharmila Makhija:

out of 50, when it looks when we look at health outcomes 50 out

Sharmila Makhija:

of 50 for maternal health. And when we look at that, that's

Sharmila Makhija:

really the driving force to how we create our curriculum, how we

Sharmila Makhija:

work with Whole Health Institute, we really want to

Sharmila Makhija:

impact patient outcomes. And in order to do that we have to work

Sharmila Makhija:

together and we have to not compete against each other, but

Sharmila Makhija:

really work at enhancing how do we develop a care delivery

Sharmila Makhija:

system that delivers on health outcomes for community, rather

Sharmila Makhija:

than just volume base? Looking at how many patients you see,

Sharmila Makhija:

are we impacting the health of a community?

Brent Williams:

Absolutely,

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes. Yeah.

Brent Williams:

Well you know, I noticed something that I think

Brent Williams:

is a little bit unusual in your background, not, you know, I

Brent Williams:

mean you find it, but you don't find it all that often. So

Brent Williams:

you're a physician with an MBA?

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah, yeah.

Brent Williams:

And of course, being the dean of a business

Brent Williams:

school that caught my attention.

Sharmila Makhija:

Sure, sure.

Brent Williams:

You know, so you're already practicing. I

Brent Williams:

think you're practicing at Emory and

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah,

Brent Williams:

you chose to get an MBA

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

Why, why did you make that choice?

Sharmila Makhija:

You know, it's funny, my whole career, I really

Sharmila Makhija:

focused on translational research. And I was very happy

Sharmila Makhija:

with the fact that I tried to understand both languages, the

Sharmila Makhija:

basic science and the clinicians. And I always was

Sharmila Makhija:

trying to bridge that understanding. And then I went

Sharmila Makhija:

on to Emory to be a division chief and GYN oncology. And it

Sharmila Makhija:

was 2008. And the financial crisis happened, right? And then

Sharmila Makhija:

Now you are leading an organization.

Sharmila Makhija:

I was approached by the team saying, hey, you know, the

Sharmila Makhija:

endowment's is cut in half because I was brought in to help

Sharmila Makhija:

build up the cancer program. And I said, well, how am I supposed

Sharmila Makhija:

to do this with half the money? And I realized I didn't

Sharmila Makhija:

understand their language. They didn't understand my language.

Sharmila Makhija:

And I thought, well, let me just go next door and see if I can,

Sharmila Makhija:

you know, maybe just take an accounting class and then they

Sharmila Makhija:

convinced me why don't you do a business degree. It was not easy

Sharmila Makhija:

to do, regardless. But it was I loved it. I loved every minute

Sharmila Makhija:

of it because I thought the teachers were just incredible.

Sharmila Makhija:

And what I quickly learned is that as much as I thought

Sharmila Makhija:

finance and accounting was the key, the key languages, I had an

Sharmila Makhija:

incredible professor who was a professor of organizational

Sharmila Makhija:

behavior. And it just clicked with me because in medicine, we

Sharmila Makhija:

think we work on teams, and we sort of work on teams. But to

Sharmila Makhija:

make impactful changes, you have to have a different team

Sharmila Makhija:

dynamic, where the lead professor or the lead clinician

Sharmila Makhija:

isn't necessarily the one who knows the most amount of

Sharmila Makhija:

information or what should be done. And so that really changed

Sharmila Makhija:

things for me and learning how we design our teams and how we

Sharmila Makhija:

work together, how we have to help bring the teams up to

Sharmila Makhija:

another level. And that was really something that was

Sharmila Makhija:

unexpected. I didn't think that's what I would learn from

Sharmila Makhija:

from business school. But it really it's carried me

Sharmila Makhija:

throughout. And that's how I mentor everyone who thinks they

Sharmila Makhija:

just need those three letters to get to the next level. I always

Sharmila Makhija:

caution them, tell me what you want to learn from this and gain

Sharmila Makhija:

from it. Forget about the degree but what do you really want to

Sharmila Makhija:

learn? And that I think changed really the direction of my

Sharmila Makhija:

career because soon after that, I was asked to come look at the

Sharmila Makhija:

chair position at Louisville where I'd been a resident and

Sharmila Makhija:

then fast forward, here we are so.

Sharmila Makhija:

Right, right, right.

Brent Williams:

You know what I've seen you already start to

Brent Williams:

put that into practice as you're building your team or reached

Brent Williams:

out to us about

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes,

Brent Williams:

how you're going to how we can help with team and

Brent Williams:

leadership skills.

Sharmila Makhija:

Absolutely.

Brent Williams:

You know, and maybe I'll ask you as, as you're

Brent Williams:

building out a team and recruiting a team, recruiting

Brent Williams:

faculty. What is, how do you characterize your own leadership

Brent Williams:

style?

Sharmila Makhija:

You know, I, I've had all those tests done

Sharmila Makhija:

and try to confirm who I think I am. I think I am a collaborative

Sharmila Makhija:

type leader. And I have confirmation that I am.

Brent Williams:

You have the paper.

Sharmila Makhija:

I have the paper. But you know, I think in

Sharmila Makhija:

any type of leadership role, you have to be able to go in and out

Sharmila Makhija:

different styles depending on the situation. So I, I am pretty

Sharmila Makhija:

good about being observant and seeing how, again, we can be

Sharmila Makhija:

saying the same thing, but everybody's gonna take in what

Sharmila Makhija:

they want, or they can absorb. So you have to be able to

Sharmila Makhija:

communicate differently to different groups, even to each

Sharmila Makhija:

individual. So I do I do think I'm able to pivot not perfect,

Sharmila Makhija:

I'm not the best at it. But I'm always trying to learn how to be

Sharmila Makhija:

better at making sure what I'm saying is being understood, are

Sharmila Makhija:

we working together? So I do flip in and out of different

Sharmila Makhija:

styles sometimes.

Brent Williams:

It's an agile style of leadership, but I'm

Brent Williams:

sure, you're in startup mode,

Sharmila Makhija:

We are,

Brent Williams:

And that's probably particularly important.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, because you know, I'm coming from

Sharmila Makhija:

traditional places. We don't have traditional ground rules,

Sharmila Makhija:

and we have to be able to move and, and even when we're

Sharmila Makhija:

recruiting I have, I'm very clear in saying if you want

Sharmila Makhija:

something that's really set, this might be frustrating for you.

Brent Williams:

Yeah,

Sharmila Makhija:

Because we have to be able to move along

Sharmila Makhija:

and you have to be able to be flexible. And sometimes we have

Sharmila Makhija:

to work late hours or the weekends, and sometimes we'll

Sharmila Makhija:

have off so we have to be able to maneuver through those

Sharmila Makhija:

differences so.

Brent Williams:

Well, if you're, you know, working to try to

Brent Williams:

build a team with an innovative mindset that's going to build

Brent Williams:

something unique.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah.

Brent Williams:

Then I mean I think being in Bentonville is a

Brent Williams:

great place to be I feel like it just encourages that innovative thinking.

Sharmila Makhija:

I think so too. I mean, it's really it's

Sharmila Makhija:

just an incredible place to be. And I have a lot of friends.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yeah, I left New York City. And I was born and raised in

Sharmila Makhija:

Alabama. So when I came and even interviewed for this position

Sharmila Makhija:

landing at the airport, it felt like home because it felt like

Sharmila Makhija:

Montgomery. And I think the people are so like, not only

Sharmila Makhija:

kind they're kind and generous and intelligent and helpful. And

Sharmila Makhija:

so it's a really great community. I I feel like it

Sharmila Makhija:

makes our other work easier. Because we're not struggling to

Sharmila Makhija:

get through all the other pieces, you know, of egos or

Sharmila Makhija:

everybody wants to help each other. So I really enjoy that piece.

Brent Williams:

I enjoy that about this community as well.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes, yeah.

Brent Williams:

I mean you know you find easy connectivity,

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

And you know, you mentioned being a

Brent Williams:

collaborative leader and this is a collaborative place.

Sharmila Makhija:

It really is. I mean, it's, you know, I just

Brent Williams:

Well, let me maybe close with with this

Brent Williams:

saw that recent Wall Street Journal article, all my friends

Brent Williams:

were sending this to me about you know, focusing on this gem

Brent Williams:

question. So, you know, I always end with something focused on

Brent Williams:

that we have in the Ozarks. And they're all curious now they're

Brent Williams:

like, well, so you haven't been calling us and you haven't come

Brent Williams:

back to New York to visit. I said I don't have a need to I'm

Brent Williams:

our students. And, you know, we have about 8,000, between 8,500

Brent Williams:

having a great time here. So they're all coming to visit now.

Brent Williams:

And it's really nice. It's really nice. Yes, yes.

Brent Williams:

and 9,000 students in the College of Business, probably

Brent Williams:

about 8,000 of those are undergraduate students.

Brent Williams:

So if you can put yourself back in the shoes

Sharmila Makhija:

Okay, okay.

Sharmila Makhija:

of that 21, 22 year old, really about to enter the workforce in

Sharmila Makhija:

full time, at least for probably the first time.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

And knowing what you now know about whole health.

Brent Williams:

What advice would you give? Because I think it's probably

Brent Williams:

going to apply to me just like it does them.

Sharmila Makhija:

I think we can all take in more advice, right.

Sharmila Makhija:

So I have a niece who's actually a second year, a sophomore in

Sharmila Makhija:

college. And so I talked to her quite often. And it's, it's

Sharmila Makhija:

because I'm always trying to understand where what's her

Sharmila Makhija:

Well, I was just about to use that word. I think, you know,

Sharmila Makhija:

point of view, how she's dealing with college? And my advice

Sharmila Makhija:

would be that always remain curious. And the whole health

Sharmila Makhija:

piece it starts early on, and taking care of yourself, so you

Sharmila Makhija:

can take care of others. Whether or not it's your friends, or

Sharmila Makhija:

your colleagues, or going out into the workforce, knowing how

Sharmila Makhija:

to really look inwardly, what do you need, take care of yourself,

Sharmila Makhija:

you're going to be better equipped of moving forward and

Sharmila Makhija:

helping the community. And I think that's just being curious

Sharmila Makhija:

as to how that changes. Because what you are 20 will be

Sharmila Makhija:

different when you're 30. Being in tune and being curious about

Sharmila Makhija:

it and always learning. I think those are a lot of things that

Sharmila Makhija:

I, I still do of just even when moving here, right. It's a

Sharmila Makhija:

lifelong learner.

Sharmila Makhija:

different change for me. And just understanding what what I

Sharmila Makhija:

need and learning about what I need. I think it's a lifelong habits.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

You know, you're someone that has been agile

Brent Williams:

throughout their career and just a curiosity.

Sharmila Makhija:

Yes.

Brent Williams:

So I'm so excited that you've brought all

Brent Williams:

of those characteristics to Northwest Arkansas, and can't

Brent Williams:

wait to see the impact that you're gonna have through the

Brent Williams:

Alice L. Walton School of Medicine.

Sharmila Makhija:

Well, thank you so much. And I look forward

Sharmila Makhija:

to working with you and your teams to helping our our faculty

Sharmila Makhija:

grow as leaders. I think we have a gem having you and your school

Sharmila Makhija:

here. So thank you for that.

Brent Williams:

On behalf of the Walton College thank you for

Brent Williams:

joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected

Brent Williams:

and never miss an episode, simply search for Be Epic on

Brent Williams:

your preferred podcast service.

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About the Podcast

Be EPIC Podcast
Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast featuring Brent Williams, interim dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. In each episode, you will hear from guests that will inspire you to be epic. As experts in their field, they will emphasize strategy, leadership, and entrepreneurship. This programming will highlight innovation and cutting-edge information that will leave you wanting more. Be sure to connect with Brent Williams on LinkedIn to join the conversation, access show notes and discover fantastic bonus content.